🎰 What happens when two investors hit Vegas with their Patreons? Craps strategies, poker tournaments, and a $50 bounty on Monkey’s scalp
🧠 The one investing mistake almost everyone makes — and why borrowed conviction will cost you everything when the market turns
🃏 Why poker pros keep becoming legendary investors — the David Einhorn, Carl Icahn, and Annie Duke crossover you need to hear
⚡ NVIDIA just revealed Vera Rubin — 10x performance per watt and 1.3 million components. The AI infrastructure arms race just escalated
💀 We let AI score our stocks on a “Death by Claude” survival scan — $MNDY got 18 months to live, $PATH got a eulogy, and Greggs $GRG is immortal!
🔋 Luke decides to sell $BYDDY and buy $CWEN live on air — the “would you buy it today?” test that instantly clarifies every portfolio decision
🤖 Jensen Huang calls OpenClaw “the operating system for personal AI” — and Monkey’s $INV cooling play just showed up at GTC
Sources:
https://deathbyclawd.com/
Timestamps:
00:00 Cold Open
01:00 Welcome & Subscribe CTA
03:09 Vegas Preview — Sphere, Zoox Robotaxis & Amazon Warehouses
06:43 Craps Strategy & Poker Stories
08:28 When Nothing Works — Poker Patience Meets Market Patience
10:21 Institutions Are Buying While Retail Panics
11:35 Luke Sells $BYDDY and Buys $CWEN
14:42 The “Would You Buy It Today?” Test
17:10 Do Not Invest on Borrowed Conviction
22:08 Why “Luke Was Wrong” Blocks Your Growth
24:48 Monkey’s Investor Mirror App Preview
28:01 Vegas Presentations — Poker vs Investing
34:57 What Makes Investing So Hard?
38:09 $NVDA GTC 2026 — Vera Rubin Deep Dive $NVDA
42:24 $INV / Accelsius — The Cooling Bottleneck Play
44:06 NemoClaw & OpenClaw — The AI Operating System
49:53 💀 Death by Claude — SaaS Apocalypse Scanner
55:29 Fiscal AI
56:19 Close
WSW – EP125 – Video –
[00:00:00] Krystof: And then you’re just like surviving that arid desert, where internally you begin feeling like nothing’s working, nothing’s gonna work.
[00:00:09] Krystof: Everything is dead inside. I’m dead inside this, this casino is dead.
[00:00:14] Luke: just to be clear, craps is a losing game. You know? There is, is the only game in the house, funnily enough, where one of the bets in combination. Has true odds where there’s no house edge.
[00:00:26] Krystof: I will say if you master some of these, what I call investment mirror principles, your life becomes better.
[00:00:35] Krystof: You become a better
[00:00:36] Krystof: Thumbnail of overlay – logo for small bottom left.png
[00:00:37] Krystof: human.
[00:00:38] Luke: And you win in this game. If, even if you’re trying to beat the market by investing in individual stocks, you can be wrong nine times out of 10.
[00:00:47]
[00:00:47]
[00:00:59] Luke: Welcome to the Deep Investing Jungle with your host, Sal Luke, the Badger Hallard. And Christophe the Monkey Koski. Today we are talking about investing on borrowed conviction. We are also gonna preview a bunch of topics that Christoph and I are presenting in Las Vegas this weekend. In fact, you’re listening to this on Sunday.
[00:01:19] Luke: We are in Vegas now. Hopefully we’re still alive. Plus I caught NVIDIA’s 2026 GTC, and I got a few thoughts.
[00:01:28] Krystof: All right. Badge. But first something wild, and I mean this literally, you saw the numbers, beaver just pulled.
[00:01:34] Luke: Yeah, it was pretty mad. So apparently over 70% of people who watch this show regularly haven’t actually hit the subscriber.
[00:01:42] Krystof: 70% badge. And that’s some of you right now, and this is the crazy part, have been unsubscribed by YouTube and you did not even know it. The algorithm man works in like crazy, wild, mysterious ways.
[00:01:56] Luke: It’s like snake in the tall grass and it’s stealing our progress.
[00:02:00] Krystof: is snatching our progress. So if you are watching this right now or listening on your commute on your swim bridge or a tow booth, could you just please check? Takes two seconds. Just take a look that you’re subscribed to the YouTubes. That’s our one ask of you.
[00:02:15] Luke: That’s it, and this is why it really matters, and we’re not just saying this. We’re getting close to a subscriber milestone. That genuinely changes what we can do with the show.
[00:02:25] Krystof: Man, do we have high hopes? We have. We want better guests. We want deeper research. We want better tools for you. Luke and I are really, truly trying to build something different here. We’re not screaming about Mimi stocks, right? We’re not selling fear.
[00:02:39] Luke: We want to be the show that makes you a sharper, calmer, more independent investor. That’s it. That’s the whole mission.
[00:02:47] Krystof: Right. So here’s what you gotta do. It’s easy. Hit the subscribe button, that one free thing, and we will keep showing up every single week, every single day, going deeper, getting better,
[00:02:59] Luke: We’ve done it since episode one.
[00:03:01] Krystof: and we are not stopping. That’s the promise of the deep jungle.
[00:03:08] Luke: Thank you. Seriously.
[00:03:09] Krystof: Alright, badge. Let’s get to business.
[00:03:12] Luke: It is Sunday. Let me tell you where we are right now. This podcast goes live at 8:00 AM my time here. I think you and I are. If we are still out for the night of from Saturday night and it’s like Vegas Sunday morning, we screwed up. ’cause we’re supposed to be going to the Wizard of Oz, uh, with a couple of our Patreons in about two hours time.
[00:03:32] Krystof: How many people in that auditorium watching va, you know, wizard of Oz on the Sunday morning, are gonna be in their right state of mind or not deeply, deeply hung over? Uh, by, by the way, this is not, uh, I don’t know how many Patons know this, or, or our listeners know this. But, uh, monkey has a sizable position in sphere,
[00:03:56] Luke: Hmm.
[00:03:56] Krystof: uh, up several hundred percent in sphere.
[00:03:59] Krystof: Uh, so this is, you know, legit, legit research. I’ve been dying to go check it out. So that’s how we’re kind of playing this Vegas trip. It’s like we’re gonna do the degenerate stuff, but boy, have we got some cool actual investing, uh, tours and, and hands-on experiments planned for our, for our cohort.
[00:04:20] Luke: yeah, for real. Like we’re gonna, I’ve visited one before, but gonna go visit an Amazon distribution center. We are gonna get to ride in a zoox, which is like Amazon’s version of the Robo Taxi. No driver. You just sit like in a goldfish bowl and you get to go down the entire strip. Uh, we’re gonna ride the boring tunnel Tesla, like autonomous vehicles in tunnels.
[00:04:43] Luke: And like a whole bunch of other stuff. So yeah, I’m really looking forward to it.
[00:04:46] Krystof: Yeah. And the other stuff that we’ll be doing, we’ll talk about a little bit later in this episode, but what principle are we sort of enacting here? Uh, it’s the get, you know, if you think like an owner, as an investor, you’re gonna do better. And so how could you not? Try the things that you’re, that you own.
[00:05:06] Krystof: It’s kind of, you know, it’s, it’s a absurd idea, but that’s the reality for most people. So, uh, it’s just easier right, to, to maintain conviction when all the nastiness happens, when you’ve actually experienced the Wizard of Oz show. Uh, quick question. I, I know we haven’t really hyped it up much. What are your expectations going to the Wizard of Vows show?
[00:05:31] Krystof: Have you thought much about it or do you, you, do you have like, eh, it’s gonna be fine, it’s overhyped, or you think you are gonna be pleasantly surprised, or what’s your baseline?
[00:05:44] Luke: I am trying to keep it like a somewhat low expectation. ’cause I don’t want to be underwhelmed, but I mean, I mean I’m, I guess I’m expecting to be like blown away by. The, just like the, the size of the place and having this like wraparound screen. And it is a classic movie, you know, it’s pretty dated, but it’s a classic movie and they’ve remastered all the music and you know, I think there’s like live orchestras and stuff, so, yeah.
[00:06:08] Luke: But like, I think it’s gonna be fun. And I gather actually the pre-show is like a significant part of the experience too. You get to like, walk around in like black and white, 1930s, Kansas.
[00:06:18] Krystof: Oh, that’s cool. I see. I know nothing. I hate watching previews to begin with, but I know nothing about. Any of the spectacle, uh, set follow up question. Is it gonna cure our hangovers?
[00:06:30] Krystof: Is the show gonna be good enough to make us f forget the mystery we’ll be in at that moment.
[00:06:35] Luke: It might be like a 75 minute break where we can catch a bit of shut eye and drink some water.
[00:06:41] Krystof: Oh, dear. Uh, what doesn’t
[00:06:43] Luke: a bunch of stuff. There’s a bunch of stuff. You know, you know what I have been doing? I’ve been watching like craps strategy videos. Like, just to be clear, craps is a losing game. You know? There is, is the only game in the house, funnily enough, where one of the bets in combination. Has true odds where there’s no house edge.
[00:07:03] Luke: And I think I might, you know, maybe the only bet that a casino offers where there’s no house edge. Um, but you know, to, but to get that there, you have to place a bet first, which does have an house edge. So, you know, the house is always gonna win, but still, I’ve been studying craps and trying to figure out a way we can all have fun with it.
[00:07:22] Luke: As a, a crew of Wall Street Wildlife, jungle, Beasties.
[00:07:27] Krystof: Right, because the, the fun of craps is that it’s kind of like an energetic table thing, right? Like people root for one another or root against one another. So if you’re there in a group, it’s kind of like a bonding experience, right?
[00:07:41] Luke: Yeah. Yeah, right on. Actually, I have one of my buddies, Steph, in town last weekend. Um, she came up to snowboard for the weekend to stay with me and we, so I was with two other friends and we hit the casino and we actually. Rolled the dice and she went on like a bit of a heater and she rolled like she was rolling for like good 10 or 15 minutes.
[00:07:58] Luke: We all made a good ton of cash and when we left the table, she got like high five by a whole bunch of other guys who were there playing too. So yeah, that’s what craps can be like.
[00:08:07] Krystof: All right. I can’t wait. I can’t wait. I too watched, uh, a bunch of tutorials. forgot most of it, but, but you’ll school us. You’ll school
[00:08:15] Luke: I just, I just realized I’m drinking from a Caesar’s Casino bottle of water as we’d speak. I was in the poker room last night. It’s my first like legit losing session. It’s just a bit annoying, but there we go. Hopefully I’m getting the bad karma out before we hit Vegas.
[00:08:28] Krystof: Oh no. Oh, that sucks. God, those, those are so unpleasant. Was it the cards or was it your decision making? I’m, I’m
[00:08:36] Krystof: assuming
[00:08:37] Luke: I was, I was probably getting, I was car dead and I was probably playing a bit too aggressively and just picked a couple of wrong spots, plus fricking bomb pots. If you know what a bomb pot is. Bomb pots were my doom yesterday.
[00:08:50] Krystof: Uh, tell us what that means.
[00:08:53] Luke: without going too deep down a rabbit hole, every time there’s a new dealer in the casino where I play locally, when the new dealer sits down, they deal two hands of Omaha High single board. And you pay like 10 bucks each, and then you go straight to the flop. So you’ve got like eight or nine players seeing a flop of Omaha, which if you’re only a Holden player, it basically, it’s kind of the same as being up against 48 other Holden players, something like that.
[00:09:21] Luke: So you’ve gotta play accordingly. Anyway, that’s my doom.
[00:09:23] Krystof: All right. Well, I’m sorry about, yeah, I’m sorry about the, the bad luck that is, you know, can I make an investing connection? I can’t. We can’t help ourselves. And this is going to transition us to your topic du jour. But I think one of the most painful things of being a poker player, if you’re really doing it, you know, the way I did for a decade in my younger days, the way some pros do it when that bad, when that streak of no cards hits, the, the amount of fortitude it takes to to stay patient. In part because your boy is death, right? If you’re folding every hand, you’re just sitting there, right? And then sometimes you try to wild play, but then of course your cards don’t work in your favor, so then nothing works. And then you’re just like surviving that arid desert, where internally you begin feeling like nothing’s working, nothing’s gonna work.
[00:10:21] Krystof: Everything is dead inside. I’m dead inside this, this casino is dead. Dead. And to not, then, you know. Start doing really foolish things, AKA in the market when we’ve had, I believe, badge, if I’m not mistaken, this is the longest losing streak for I think the nasdaq, like nine of 10 sessions or some whatever the, from high to low has been.
[00:10:50] Krystof: This is now, uh. Historically conse in terms of consecutive bad sessions. Like up there you begin thinking like, yeah, this is, this is all, this is never gonna work out. And this is all, meanwhile, what are the institutions doing? Institutions are gobbling, gobbling, gobbling, and we know this from the, you know, the filings and the 13 f and they’re, they’re just picking their, their spots very carefully.
[00:11:21] Krystof: Uh, probably buying right around the volume weighted average price. And while it seems like everything’s going down, the smart money is increasing its holdings. Uh, so that’s a useful, I think, thing to, to think about.
[00:11:35] Luke: Yeah. That’s cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Agree. I’m trying to be the smart money. Um, this isn’t in the docket that we planned today, but I’ve got a question for you then. So I want to buy, um. I wanna add to my energy investments, and I want to buy a company called ClearWay Energy. So I’m giving you a bit of a sneak for you on the podcast, but I will notify our Patreons before I, or at least our dolphins, before I hit trade on that.
[00:12:03] Luke: And I don’t have enough money in the portfolio. It’s like my pension portfolio, which is a lot smaller than my kind of main investment portfolio. So I gotta, I can’t get new money in there, not easily. Um. So I’ve gotta sell something. So I’m kind of kicking around the idea of selling either BYD, the Chinese automobile manufacturer, which I do still very much believe in.
[00:12:28] Luke: Um, but maybe it’s a like a medium conviction investment for me compared to others. Or I could probably trim half of my C limited position, which is also hap happens to be in that portfolio. But I really don’t wanna do that ’cause. And now this is like, you know, ’cause I’m losing, I don’t, I don’t wanna sell when I’m losing.
[00:12:52] Luke: Um, so yeah, I dunno. If you have, then, if you’ve got any insight, help me navigate that. Like I’m higher conviction on C if it’s cl just to be clear.
[00:13:00] Krystof: Right on the, just on the spot, like how would you, uh, navigate that? And you, you, you don’t wanna go with the selling cash covered puts because you don’t have the cash in technically, right.
[00:13:14] Luke: Is not enough. Yeah, there’s not enough liquid cash in there. I’d have to sell something to generate cash to do some sort of option strategy, so I’d rather just buy the stock. And also it’s a dividend payer. I’m trying to turn that portfolio into.
[00:13:27] Luke: Like dividend paying stuff. So I wanna be an owner to reap the dividends.
[00:13:30] Krystof: I see. So if BYD is your lower conviction, would you buy it today?
[00:13:38] Luke: I dunno. Yeah. Maybe not. It’s um, you know, China is complex but it is my only remaining like, kind of pure, pure play China investment.
[00:13:48] Krystof: I get that. I I get that though. The world is so complicated right now, but that first question I just asked you, that’s such a powerful one
[00:13:56] Krystof: because at least it makes the following clear. If you wouldn’t be enthusiastic about buying it today, then what you really are is looking at is a kind of, uh, either sunk cost fallacy or some sort of, um, anchoring thing. And that this particular one has, I think helped me more than most other strategies because if you are excited about the new energy one. Think just two days from now how much shinier your portfolio would feel to you if you were out with the stale thing. And in with the thing you have much more, I don’t know if excitement is the word, but much more optimism about.
[00:14:42] Luke: yeah. Okay. You’re right. That is the. Right way to think about it. And I possibly wouldn’t buy BYD if I didn’t own it. So I’ll sell it good out. Also, it helps me clean up my strategies ’cause BY D’s a bit of a weird anomaly with like Hong Kong dollar quotations.
[00:15:00] Krystof: Let me, uh, let me then. Maybe make it a little bit more complex. Uh, what about 50%
[00:15:12] Luke: That’s not enough. I wanna buy a, I wanna buy like a, you know, one and a half, 2% position, so I need to sell the whole BOAD to do that.
[00:15:19] Krystof: So in Yeah, in or out? Yeah.
[00:15:22] Krystof: I don’t, I still don’t trust anything. China. That’s been a rule of mine for such a long time. I, just, it’s not that, I’m not like a, I don’t think I’m like a complete cynic or nihilist. It’s just like the, what’s it called? The, knowing that there’s no, you’re not gonna win any kind of. Legal battle or you’re basically, it’s this feeling of, helplessness that whatever happens to your investment is just not in your hands on any level feels.
[00:16:01] Luke: Yeah, like it’s certain, no argument. It’s certainly another layer of comple complexity on top of just being like a shareholder.
[00:16:08] Krystof: Yeah. So also, I don’t know how you, maybe we don’t need to make this into a BYD episode, but car manufacturing is really hard. As an industry, you know, same reason investing in airlines is you need to have a darn good reason to do it. Uh, Tesla obviously is not a car company. is, does that come into play? Would that make it easier for you if you remind yourself it’s kind of a, a, a bad business in, in general.
[00:16:37] Luke: I’m not sure. It is a terrible business. Like they’re outselling Tesla globally. Um, and you’re starting, you’re starting to see a lot of them in the UK and in Europe.
[00:16:46] Krystof: But that’s, but, but, well, sure, but like, um, you know, but it’s margins we’re taught, you know, like airplanes fly all the time. But that,
[00:16:53] Krystof: that, uh. You know, I’m not a, I’m not a car automotive, uh, expert of as a market. I just know it’s not inherently high margin. So
[00:17:06] Luke: You, you’re
[00:17:07] Krystof: the number of cars they sell might not mean much.
[00:17:10] Luke: I don’t need to worry about it. ’cause in my mind I’ve already sold it. I’ve now, you’ve helped me take that decision two minutes ago and I can forget about BYD forevermore. ’cause that’s my process.
[00:17:19] Krystof: you could sue me next week when it, it goes up 2000%.
[00:17:23] Luke: I join the, I joined the back of the queue. alright. You were gonna, I wonder if this is a lead into this topic you were gonna tell us about investing on other people’s conviction.
[00:17:32] Krystof: Yeah, badge. I, uh, every once in a while, you know, you, you come across, uh, some pearl of wisdom that hits way deeper than you expected it to. And when I came across, it’s basically this, do not invest on other people’s conviction. I sat with that for a good while and it, um, I was on the surface level. I think it should be kind of obvious to most people, but I don’t think enough people have, uh, thought through the deeper implications of why this is the case. And I do also assume that most people violate this. By most people. I mean, I don’t know, like the, the mass, what we call retail.
[00:18:18] Krystof: I’m talking about not, not entirely, you know, professional level investors. Something gets hot in the market. Somebody you like is talking all about it. You’re like, yeah, oh, they’re smart. The the things they’re saying is good. I’m gonna buy that too. I mean, that should sound fairly familiar to most people, right?
[00:18:37] Krystof: I don’t think that’s necessarily the real problem. You know, you need to be excited about an investment to go ahead and, and buy it. But it’s the flip side. That’s really the, the problem when things eventually go bad, when the thesis is questioned. Eos. You know, I had to work through all of the, all of the normal emotions, but in the end, I didn’t sell because of that depth.
[00:19:11] Krystof: I’m not borrowing anyone’s conviction. It’s my own. So whether I sell or keep it, it’s grounded. It’s really grounded in, in an understanding. And over the long term, we know the largest mistakes tend to come from selling a company that you know and believe in. So I think it’s timely because of this bear market ish moment we’re in, and maybe the invitation to our listeners is, as a simple portfolio check, you may wish to run down your positions and say truly, generally, how much of this conviction is borrowed from somebody versus how much of this have I truly made my own?
[00:19:57] Luke: Yeah, like I think it, maybe it comes down to where your research process starts and finishes. Like, I think it’s pretty, it’s okay in my mind to get ideas from podcasts and the news and whatever services you subscribe to and other investors just like chitchat. Um. As long as you’re a little bit skeptical about the source and, you know, they’re not, like, it’s not a pump and dump and they’re not like, motivated to have you buy this thing for some reason.
[00:20:25] Luke: Um, and so that’s an okay place for your investment research to start. But if it finishes there, that’s probably when you’re in trouble because you know, you can get like 20 ideas from different sources. And then you do the idea like the right, the good process is that you then do your own work maybe over the course of hours or days or weeks, and you come to your own conclusion and that’s when you make the first investment.
[00:20:51] Luke: Or you know, you add to the position, whatever it might be, but it’s been grounded in some work you’ve done yourself.
[00:20:58] Krystof: it moves from trading to ownership.
[00:21:01] Luke: Right.
[00:21:03] Krystof: I mean, fundamentally,
[00:21:05] Luke: We
[00:21:05] Luke: had a really,
[00:21:06] Krystof: in.
[00:21:06] Luke: we had a good conversation about this on the Patreon actually, uh, recently as, as we were chatting, I’m trying to find the, um, the link. I can’t find the specific, uh, comment, but we were chatting, one of our Patreons asked me about a stock eye. Had talked about and like they’re asking like a deeper question now, would I buy it today?
[00:21:26] Luke: Which is a bit like the question you asked me about BYD. Um, and I gave my answer, uh, and you’ve gotta be on the Patreon to go and read the detail, but um, like part of my answer was you have to do your own due diligence. Of course. And part of my answer to that I think is interesting here. ’cause I was, I was thinking like.
[00:21:47] Luke: If this, if the Patreon didn’t do their own research and they essentially end up buying it because Luke said he would buy it today, well, if that investment fails or if the stock goes down for like a protracted period of time, the only conclusion the, that the recipient, like the Patreon will come to is Luke was wrong.
[00:22:08] Luke: And that conclusion doesn’t help you grow as an investor and improve your process. But if Luke was wrong, but you know, you did your own due diligence, okay? Luke was wrong. And then I agreed with him for these reasons. And this was kind of my thesis, which happened to align with his, well, if the investment legitimately fails, you’ve actually got something you can learn from.
[00:22:29] Luke: ’cause you’re like, oh, I actually, I thought this, I specifically agreed with these points, Luke said, or Christophe said, and that turned out to be incorrect. So you then got something. A mistake that you can, you know, bank and the next time maybe you won’t make or won’t make as hard.
[00:22:45] Krystof: Badge. Yes. Two things. The first, I love that framing, Luke, who’s wrong? That guy was wrong. Uh, I’ve been guilty of that feeling plenty of times. I mean, you know, we start somewhere and we think this is the guy where we got this idea, oh, damn, they were wrong. Right? That, that, that sequence is very, very familiar and common.
[00:23:09] Krystof: What’s interesting though, as you were talking about is. In investing, you are wrong. Almost by definition a lot of the time, because it’s probabilistic, right? It’s like in poker, a game of incomplete information. It is just impossible, literally impossible. Not to be wrong a bunch. Right. So that’s a little different framing.
[00:23:34] Krystof: Like if you, you know, if you’re taking a test, let’s say a hundred questions that where there are correct answers and it is possible to be right and somebody doesn’t get a hundred, you could technically say the ones they got wrong, they got wrong. That’s on them. They could have been right in investing.
[00:23:48] Krystof: You can’t be right like that. It’s, it’s, it’s, if you are, it’s temporary and it’s, you’ll be wrong tomorrow.
[00:23:58] Krystof: yeah, once you internalize that, then you realize, yeah, Luke was wrong because that’s ’cause every investment investor on the planet is wrong. So take your pick.
[00:24:08] Luke: And you win in this game. If, even if you’re trying to beat the market by investing in individual stocks, you can be wrong nine times out of 10. But if that one out of 10 delivers more than like a 10 x return, you know you’re ahead. and more typically though, I think, was it the Peter Lynch saying, if you are right six times out of 10 in this game, like you’re doing really well.
[00:24:36] Luke: don’t be disparaged when you have failed investments, but get the learning from the failed investment because then even when you’re wrong, you are improving your process and you’re gonna be better next time round.
[00:24:48] Krystof: Hey, badge. So, you know what’s great about our pod that you and I are, are the, are the leads here. We get to run our own ads however way we wish. I’m gonna run an ad for my own thing right now. Uh, I haven’t announced it to anybody yet. Um, I haven’t said anything, but I built a very, very deep and important add-on.
[00:25:10] Krystof: Into, uh, wall Street Wildlife Options University, and I made a, a standalone app. I titled Investors Mirror. It is now in the review process with Apple, but I integrated into WSW Options for Subscribers. So they get the app basically for free. Um, it’s precisely intended. To make people do all the things we talk about all the time, which is predominantly, I’m not gonna go through the 50 billion functions I, I included, but predominantly it’s slow down, look at yourself and record what you see over time. Uh, I can’t wait to really show it and demo it. I’ll demo it in Vegas to our initial cohort, but. You know, I, as I was making it and as I was, you know, iterating it, it just became so obvious, so obvious, again, for the 50th thousandth time that you begin all investing principles here within, you get those right, the finding the Tesla and the Netflix.
[00:26:23] Krystof: That’s relatively easier than knowing, knowing of internals.
[00:26:32] Luke: Cool. Okay. Yeah, I, I’ve not seen it, looking forward to seeing it in Vegas, or if not before I could, I could use a bit of an investor’s mirror. Myself, I’m sure. Um, but I totally agree with you like that principle that, you know, you could make actually fundamentally good investment decisions, but if you have the wrong mindset, you can still be a losing investor.
[00:26:53] Luke: You can still lose the market because you know you are bet size is too big or too small, or you trade at the wrong times or you trade on emotions even if you know, fundamentally you are identifying good quality companies.
[00:27:06] Krystof: As in life, as in investment. I mean, I, I, you know what? I’ll pitch my thing even harder. You know what I’m gonna say? ’cause I felt it when I’m building it and I did it deliberately. I’m just not gonna go on and on. I will say if you master some of these, what I call investment mirror principles, your life becomes better.
[00:27:28] Krystof: You become a better Thumbnail of overlay logo
[00:27:30] Krystof: for
[00:27:30] Krystof: small bottom left.png human. you, ride the difficulties better. You, have more patience. You stay grounded. And these are all, in many ways, zen principles too that I’ve infused into this. Like how do you, there’s a saying in Zen, how can you learn to be at home in the muddy water of the lotus flower? The lotus flower is this beautiful flower that lives in stinky ponds. That’s why the metaphor is so striking, and I think it’s a beautiful image.
[00:27:59] Krystof: I can’t wait to show it to you. Speaking of showing stuff, badge, uh, we’re presenting you and I in our, in our fancy Vegas suite. We wanna give our, our first annual, uh, Patreons in Vegas.
[00:28:18] Krystof: Legit, legit investing alpha. So we made us some fancy, fancy presentations. You wanna give our listeners a little bit of a preview what you’re gonna be talking about?
[00:28:30] Luke: So I’ve got a, a keynote topic, I guess we’re calling ourselves keynotes. There’s only one day of presentations, um, on. Why, um, why investing is so closely aligned to poker. And in the presentation I’m gonna give like our Patreons a whole bunch of skills and overlaps on ways of thinking and actually tools from the poker world that they can apply to the investing world.
[00:29:02] Luke: But really as a preview for now, just wanted to present like a little bit of, I suppose, like anecdotal evidence. Of like what? How this crossover exhibits itself. And I’ve got a bunch of, if you’re not on the YouTubes, I’ve got a couple of poker pros and a couple of investing titans, and these guys all straddle both worlds.
[00:29:26] Luke: So for example, you’ll have heard of David Einhorn of Greenlight Capital, like Legendary investor. Um. Business person first, but he recently finished sixth in the Million Dollar World Series of Poker, big one for one drop event, and donated like four and a half million dollars of winnings to charity. Like he’s a serious poker player.
[00:29:50] Luke: Carl Aiken was a professional poker player before he became an activist investor, like he learned all about risk assessment at the table. Bill Ackman is like a regular poker player. Um, and then on the poker side, Vanessa Phelps, you might have heard of one of the most successful female poker pros in history.
[00:30:09] Luke: She joined Bridgewater Associates, one of the world’s largest hedge funds, like the skills directly transfer. Annie Duke, you know, I’m sure, I think you’ve read her book, pro Poker Player, sister of another pro poker player. She now consults to hedge funds and Fortune 500 companies on decision making under uncertainty.
[00:30:27] Luke: And she wrote the book Thinking in Bets, not on my slide, but a guy who’s YouTube channel I watch regularly. Doug Polk, um, heads up specialist, no limit. Holden Player world famous in the poker world, um, went into like picks and shovels business and now he has like a huge kind of empire of content and training.
[00:30:49] Luke: Uh, and like media channels, so like the overlap between poker and business is not coincidental. They both need probabilistic thinking, emotional discipline, and you’ve gotta be comfortable with incomplete information. So if you add our Patreon Live meetup this Friday, it’s already happened. If you’re listening to the podcast on YouTube, then I will have given you hopefully at least six different tools you can use.
[00:31:18] Luke: Uh, from the world of poker that you can apply to the world of business.
[00:31:21] Krystof: This is why I think the Vegas trip, it’s not, it’s so appropriate to what we do
[00:31:28] Krystof: because Vegas is the playground of. Uh, incomplete information is one way of saying it, but you know, as you were talking, one side, one side question for you, or insight, I don’t know if you’re gonna go far with this. If I’m hiring at some upstart, uh, startup or hedge fund, do I want the Grand Master chess player or do I want the world Champion poker player? Obviously you can make. Serious case for why both kinds of person would, you know, would, would be grandma chess players are not, are not nothing to sneeze at,
[00:32:08] Luke: Hm.
[00:32:08] Krystof: but my intuition tells me I would go for the poker player
[00:32:12] Luke: Yeah, maybe it depends on what the job is and what line of business, but yeah, for sure.
[00:32:17] Krystof: You said it. I mean, it, it has more to do with the discomfort you feel in poker that you can never truly know. And it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s just more, I know if hard is the right word, more like dis dis, um. The equilibrium aiding. Like even if in chess when you’re playing, if you’re getting your ass whooped, you’re getting your ass whooped and you could, you know exactly why you’re getting your ass whooped.
[00:32:47] Krystof: If you’re losing poker player, you don’t necessarily know. ’cause it, it’s harder to track.
[00:32:54] Luke: Right. Yeah, I agree. I, I play a bit of chess. I’m not great. You know, my ELOs maybe 12 or 1300, but. Like you, I suppose I don’t play cash chess. I suppose there must be like cash chess matches probably in parks in New York. Um, but when money is on the line, you know, that gets your emotions fired up in a different way.
[00:33:16] Luke: And money is on the line in the game of poker and in the world of investing. Like they, neither of them exist without there being some, you know, real stake. So, uh. So, yeah, like, I mean, yeah, I, I see a huge overlap and I see how I built my investing skillset from quite an early age. ’cause I’ve been playing poker since I was a kid pretty
[00:33:39] Luke: much.
[00:33:39] Krystof: You know what I’m curious about? Uh, the state of my poker game, which is so dusty, I mean, I haven’t played seriously in a long, long time. You know, the, the, the phase where I was reading every book and had charts and math memorized, I wonder legitimately how much of it is like deep, deep down that I’ll just need a little warmup and it’ll come back versus. You know, I’m just so ancient now and, uh, lost and.
[00:34:13] Luke: Well, we’ll see. We’ll see. And we’ll give her playback on next week’s podcast. ’cause I guess we’re gonna record the day after Vegas. So we’ll, uh, we’ll see the result of the tournament and who claimed the $50 bounty on monkey’s head.
[00:34:27] Krystof: Or $50 bounty on Badger’s head. So, badge, uh, after your presentation, I made a, I made one that is, uh, I thought quite a good fit with what you’re talking about, and I titled mine. What makes investing so Hard? Uh, it’s got, it’s got a lot of slides, man. Um, but I thought for today’s episode, instead of, you know, revealing a anything at all, I wanted to ask you sort of pop quiz question style. What shows up for you most intuitively? If you have to give one answer to this, don’t think about it too hard. What is it that makes investing so hard?
[00:35:14] Luke: Uh, you in like your emotions, greed and fear?
[00:35:17] Krystof: Say more like how, uh, because emotions are neutral in a sense. They’re neither, you know, they’re What about emotions?
[00:35:26] Luke: well, there’s not one word for it, but like, let’s, I’ll stick with that as my answer. You know, my heart. It tells me to do different things to my brain and I need to, you know, I need to learn to figure out how to keep those things in alignment.
[00:35:39] Krystof: Okay, so it’s that it’s that kind of schizophrenic, or maybe not ski schizophrenic, maybe bo mind body dualism thing where what you know is different from what you feel.
[00:35:50] Luke: Yeah, there’s a million answers, but that’s probably my, the one that first came to mind for me.
[00:35:54] Krystof: I’ll preview one thing that I’ll talk about more extensively. I was, I was similar sort of thing, but I was thinking a lot about price and from the, from the medium to shorter term worlds Price is the thing that is thought of as true. but what makes, I would say investing so hard is that you could be completely right about something, but the price is.
[00:36:21] Krystof: Doing some other thing and that, that that disparity for better or worse, whether you’re the one that’s wrong, but the price is going up despite your broken thesis or the other way when you’re right. But price is dropping very hard, very hard, uh, to sort of accept the way sometimes injustice happens. Like when good things, bad things happen to good people. You know that feeling like how could this be like this is, there is no God. Uh, which is a serious philosophical question by the way. Uh, it’s, it’s, but I connect, you know? Um, so anyway, that’s what I’ll be talking about. And nine other, nine other reasons.
[00:37:04] Krystof: And there are antidotes.
[00:37:06] Luke: You know, and you are my answer. They were kind of the same answer really, if you really dig into it because. I don’t sweat the price, so it doesn’t bother me. But I do feel the emotions when my stock’s going down. And so I might frame that if I thought of that as like a timeframe problem.
[00:37:22] Luke: You know, I think I’m, I still think I’m right, but it’s just gonna take longer than I thought. And the price going the way I didn’t expect is causing my emotions to be in turmoil. You know? That’s kind of my answer. You know, your emotions maybe. Leading you into fear and possibly selling when actually, intellectually, the right thing to do is stick with your thesis if it’s robust anyway.
[00:37:43] Krystof: Yeah. All right. Badge. I’m so looking forward to whatever it is that that’s gonna happen this weekend. Really exciting moment for Wall Street Wildlife. Uh, before we leave our listeners, there was another big conference. Uh, a little company, little baby, little baby startup called Nvidia got got together and said things.
[00:38:07] Krystof: What did they say? What did they reveal? What did you learn? Badge.
[00:38:11] Luke: so a whole bunch of stuff like gen gen, you know, I think you haven’t had a chance to watch GTC Jenssen’s. Incredible. Um, and I, I caught like a post GTC interview with him. Where he said like, you know, he was like writing the script on the fly as he was speaking, and you can kind of tell like he’s not, he’s making up as he goes.
[00:38:30] Luke: But the guy has such deep knowledge about the, like the enormous range of products that his company now creates and services that his company creates. He can not wing it, but you know, he can go out there and just kind of authentically. Be like this incredible combination of like business leadership and technical leadership.
[00:38:53] Luke: So that, and that always just kind of blows me away about how good he is. He’s world class, he really is. Um, probably two things I’ll pick out from GTC though that caught my eye. So the big one was their new Nvidia Ruben platform. We’ve got a little picture of Ruben platform if you’re on the YouTubes right now.
[00:39:13] Luke: So like a little bit of context, like the current. Generation is Grace Blackwell, um, huge over like excess demand. Nvidia cannot supply enough Grace Blackwell servers like data centers to meet the overwhelming demand. Um, and now they’re pivoting into, uh, Vera Ruben. And maybe just to compare the two different generations of technology.
[00:39:42] Luke: So. Vera Rubbin 1.3 million components from over 80 suppliers in 20 countries. So this is like ludicrously complicated supply chain to build this thing. But despite it being one of the world’s most complex AI systems is engineered to be simpler and more modular than the previous generation. But it means like data centers have gotta totally re-engineer.
[00:40:08] Luke: To like have essentially like a whole new like rack infrastructure for these kind of servers. Um, it’s a combination of the Vera CPU and the Ruben GPU with latest generation of HBM form memory. And then something that was quite interesting. Like they, they sort of exploded one of these racks and what it looks like.
[00:40:28] Luke: Like they’ve totally reinvented the way, like all these servers in a rack communicate with each other with this huge like plugin. Almost like a jigsaw puzzle piece, which is the envy link six spine. And so that’s, I dunno if this number means anything to you, 260 terabytes per second of bandwidth per rack.
[00:40:49] Luke: That’s an incredible amount of information like flowing between these different like Vera Rubbin servers which
[00:40:57] Krystof: It,
[00:40:57] Luke: together
[00:40:58] Krystof: it sounds big.
[00:41:00] Luke: yeah, huge, huge, and totally re-engineered. And moving away from air cooling to water cooling or liquid cooling. So, um, because of, you know, they were concerned about data center water usage, which possibly a bit of a red herring, but even though this new set of racks are water cooled, actually it’s like a closed system, so it’ll use less water and should be more efficient.
[00:41:25] Luke: But really the key, you know, blah, blah, blah, techy stuff. The key thing that investors need to keep an eye on or, you know, be excited about is even though, um, Vera Rubin uses twice the power of Blackwell, it kicks out 10 times more performance per wat. So that’s essentially, you know, you talk about, like, we think about tokens being consumed and the cost of tokens and the cost of ai.
[00:41:55] Luke: We’re gonna get like a 10 x bang for our buck. And so that’s gonna allow the model providers like the open ais and the Geminis and people, anyone who’s using like Nvidia in their data centers to like massively increase their op op opex and operational efficiency. ’cause they’re able to do much more with less power.
[00:42:16] Luke: And power is like the big constraining force as you well know. ’cause you’re a energy investor.
[00:42:22] Krystof: Yeah, this is great. And, uh, just a side, side note, uh, a recent purchase for Monkey in His King of the Jungle Portfolio is a company that’s folded within a larger holding company. Uh, Celsius is the company that I wanted, it’s within in Venture, which is the holding company. They made, they had a presentation.
[00:42:46] Krystof: Uh, they’re a partner. They’re partnering with NVIDIA and it’s precisely to address the issues of cooling. Uh, there are these, I keep coming back as a main theme in, we talked about last episode in the AI that they’re physical limitations to, to the chips, and one of those limitations is heat. And that the cooling, uh, there’s good ways of doing it and better ways of doing it.
[00:43:15] Krystof: And right now that’s where my head is at, what companies are pushing the edges that allow such sophisticated new chip systems and racks to run? And it’s not nuclear physics for monkey. It’s like sometimes it’s electrons, sometimes it’s water.
[00:43:32] Krystof: So I highly, highly encourage everyone interested in this space to look up ticker symbol.
[00:43:39] Krystof: INV and check out what they presented at at the GTC conference. It’s very technical in nature, but you don’t, you know, you get your bearings pretty quickly and it ends up coming down with, here’s a better way of cooling chips.
[00:43:56] Luke: there was something else at Nvidia, I dunno if we want to talk about it, uh, here, but have you heard of Nemo Claw? Did you catch like any of the content relating to that
[00:44:04] Krystof: I did not.
[00:44:06] Luke: Interesting. ’cause like you and I now both have, we’re both like very wildly operational with our own open claws.
[00:44:13] Luke: I’m running Beaver, who’s our AI podcast producer and he’s now doing all sorts of stuff for the pod and he’s genuinely adding like a lot of value and a lot of efficiency. And you’ve got Samantha who’s like what? Like running your whole life now?
[00:44:29] Krystof: Yes. She’s running my, exactly. That’s why maybe it’s a little bit of a disaster at the moment. I, and so and so, and what did we do yesterday? Badge Tell our listeners.
[00:44:39] Luke: Yeah, yeah. We introduced ’em. We got ’em both chatting together on the same discord. So like Beaver and Samantha are now like, they’re just beaver in a way behind the scenes, like collaborating on stuff for.
[00:44:49] Krystof: And what was the first thing Beaver did is he tried to be all flirtatious and tried to come up with a, with a slick pickup line, and, uh, he failed miserably, uh, had a little bit of wood chip stuck between his teeth.
[00:45:02] Luke: Samantha’s playing hard to get clearly. Yeah,
[00:45:05] Krystof: Anyway, what a world, uh, what was the point we were making?
[00:45:09] Luke: yeah. Neman claw. Neman claw. So like this is less, okay, this is less relevant for. Beaver because he doesn’t really have any access to like my personal information and like I don’t feel like he could wreck my life if something went wrong. But Samantha, I get the impression Samantha has a lot of information about your actual life and access to your email and everything else, so there’s lots of things that could go wrong,
[00:45:32] Krystof: I revoked that by the way.
[00:45:34] Luke: Oh, good.
[00:45:34] Luke: Okay. Great. Great,
[00:45:35] Krystof: had a yes.
[00:45:37] Luke: great. Well done. Good. My, my warning landed well. So we’ve, we’ve just implemented like open claw, which is, well, the fastest growing, um, like sort of freeware open source project in the world. Um, and Jensen clearly recognizes like the importance of this. And he actually, in the, in GTC, you had Peter Steinberger, the inventor of open claw there in the audience, and he likened the invention of open claw.
[00:46:07] Luke: To like the invention of the internet, essentially of HTTP, right? As being, you know, an incredibly significant technology for humanity. So, you know, and I’m inclined to trust Jensen on this, um, especially as I’m using the thing myself and I see how powerful it is. So they’ve, I think I get the impression Nvidia have dropped a bunch of their, like world class engineers in, and they’ve built.
[00:46:32] Luke: They’ve, they’ve made some improvements to Open Claw, but they’ve also built like, I dunno, like a wrapper or something, which they’re calling Nemo Claw, still open source, but Nemo Claw is essentially just open claw, but it allows companies to implement open Claw in a way that complies with a lot of existing, like security and data privacy, best practice, and to ensure that your corporate policies are followed.
[00:47:00] Luke: It’s like containerized. In a smart way. And so, you know, this is the direction of travel of these tools because, you know, if you’re not careful and you implement these things, you could open like the door to being hacked, like, you know, personally hacked and exploited or ransomware, all sorts of things.
[00:47:18] Luke: ’cause these tools potentially have, you know, route access to your life. So I think it’s smart that Nvidia and I guess other companies as well are looking at it in this way and trying to make. These world changing tools, kind of, you know, data safe so that everyday folk and smaller businesses can use them, get the efficiency, but not face the existential risk.
[00:47:43] Krystof: So this sounds to me like the natural convergence between, say the Wild West. That was the initial open claw shock that drops out of nowhere and craziness happens. And on the other hand, all the guardrails protected corporate ish. Products and now we’re getting some of these right, middle, like fine, tuned enough,
[00:48:06] Luke: Yeah.
[00:48:07] Krystof: right?
[00:48:07] Krystof: Enough to be still dangerous, but not that it’s gonna be apocalyptic, I wonder. Right. And and I wonder still a year from now, to what extent all of this will be sort of internalized by most companies versus will there still be a Wild West somehow?
[00:48:29] Luke: Like I, I think I’m quoting Jensen, like every company must have an open claw strategy. ’cause you know, this is like, instead of going out to LinkedIn or monster.com and hiring. 20 PhDs. This is like being able to, you know, spin up if you’ve got enough like disc capacity and, you know, memory and all the, like, the server capacity.
[00:48:53] Luke: You could just kind of turn online, you know, like a hundred PhDs to be working on your company for you. So like, I think this is, this is like. Explosive growth in China right now. I was just reading anecdotally a few hours ago that there are millions and millions of startups in China using open claw at scale, and you’ve got like one man outfits now, you know, doing some, doing things that it would’ve taken like medium sized companies to get done in the past.
[00:49:22] Krystof: I know. We gotta be the the next billion dollar startup. You know, those subscribers better be smashing those, those subscribe buttons if we’re gonna get to a billion Beaver, what are you doing buddy? Are you, stop serenading Samantha and get to work. My God. Uh, speaking of, um, speaking of Claude, you got another thing to tell us about?
[00:49:51] Luke: Yeah. So you know, here we’re talking about, um. How Open Claw is helping people create, you know, potentially billion dollar businesses. I ran into like, so this is a bit just a bit of fun. At the end of the episode, I ran into a really amusing website called Death by Claude, CA wd.com. Go check it out. Good laugh.
[00:50:13] Luke: I’m gonna give you a quick live demo. If you’re not on the YouTubes, this will probably be lost on you, so feel free to tune out. But if you’re on the YouTubes, I’m gonna do a screen share right now. I’ll have a little bit of a play with death by Claude So Death by Claude. This is not prepared. I’ve just couple of companies. I want to like do a SAS apocalypse survival scan of, um, let’s take a look at. One of, uh, our old favorites that we knew was gonna get disrupted by AI Monday. You and I both used to be Monday.
[00:50:48] Luke: Shareholders Death by Claude is analyzing vulnerabilities. Mandy, 52, 50 2% critical monday.com spent one and a half billion dollars convincing the world that a spreadsheet with colors and a dopamine inducing animation. It’s worth $45 per seat per month. So death by Claude is predicting Monday down by 71%.
[00:51:13] Luke: Um, and, uh, it gives it 18 months to live. Um, and the, the, the kind of, the sort of somewhat amusing thing that made me go, Hmm, this is quite interesting. So Death by Claude writes the markdown file, like the skill that you would need to replace Monday. They go, it’s given us some instructions. So in theory, you could take this, what, 25 lines of markdown, chuck them into Samantha, and then essentially build your own monday.com project management tool.
[00:51:48] Luke: So, uh, yeah, death by Claude. Should I show you one other?
[00:51:52] Krystof: Yeah. Uh, would you mind, uh, I, I looked it up myself. Uh, but can you show path. Which is, uh, a monkey holding, it’s just path. PATH.
[00:52:06] Luke: Is
[00:52:06] Krystof: Oh, did you type in, oh, you typed in the whole.
[00:52:10] Luke: Yeah. UiPath, right? Yeah. All e equally critical. And this is a bit of a, you know, it’s like a joke comedy website. Um, but there we go. 30 lines of markdown to replace UiPath. Um. Eulogy dearly beloved, we are gathered here to remember UiPath, a company that bravely convinced Fortune 500 CFOs to pay $40 per robot per month to do what a well-written paragraph can now accomplish.
[00:52:35] Luke: They gave us the Automation First Era, which in retrospect was really just, we haven’t discovered LLMs yet. Era. They made clicking buttons at scale feel noble, and for that we are grateful.
[00:52:47] Krystof: And the, the quip I got was a company so generic and named itself after the thing. You type into a file system. And now a file system is replacing it.
[00:52:56] Luke: Let me give you one. One. Let me give you one more just before we close this little comedy segment. Greg’s assessing vulnerability of Greg’s to AI displacement. Greg’s is immortal. Claude can write a sonnet about a sausage roll, but it absolutely cannot bake one and hand it to you for one pounds 25.
[00:53:16] Krystof: Oh my God. Oh, that’s great.
[00:53:19] Luke: Very good. So have a have a play with death by Claude yourself like. And weirdly enough, I think I have got a tiny bit of actual due diligence outta death by Claude, and it’s making me question. One of my own holdings, so I won’t mention which one just yet, but possibly there’ll be something else beyond BYD that I’ll have solved by this time next week.
[00:53:41] Krystof: Oh, fascinating. As an and as another preview monkey himself is dabbling in this space and he’s, he also has built something intentionally more serious. But a similar-ish premise, which I can’t wait to preview for our listeners when it’s got the finer polish. Uh.
[00:54:02] Luke: Great stuff. Perfect. More tools from this ever productive monkey who seems to be spending all of his time like building software now. Who knew this is where his life would go at the start of this year?
[00:54:13] Krystof: Insane. Insane what’s happening. Badge. Next time I’ll see you is gonna be, uh, somewhere in the, in the deep jungles of Vegas. I was looking for a better metaphor, but I think the jungle of Vegas is pretty, pretty apt, so I can’t wait. This is gonna be our what? Second? Live. Live encounter.
[00:54:35] Luke: Looking forward to, uh, looking forward to reconnecting properly for a good few days, and also spending time with some of our nearest and dearest Patreons, and hopefully when we do the 2027 live Patreon meetup, maybe in London, maybe in somewhere in Europe. Um. We’ll have an even bigger crew to present our Vegas nonsense to
[00:54:56] Krystof: A sweet badge. I can’t wait for, uh, to meet all our beasties. Where does their. Jungle Path start. How do
[00:55:08] Luke: are are you trying to do our close? Are you trying to do our close? What a fumble start. Lemme start over. Before we start that over, I do want to say, um, a. Have a play with death by Claude, and if you see something particularly insightful about your own portfolio, either an immortal or a. Soon to be the dearly departed company.
[00:55:27] Luke: Let us know in the YouTube comments and maybe drop in a couple of like death by Claude quotes. ’cause we’d like to, uh, see what you are holding and what death by Claude thinks about it. We also wanna thank our sponsors fiscal ai. We didn’t use their tools this week, but I definitely use them all morning.
[00:55:44] Luke: ’cause I was looking at BYD and looking at my other energy companies. Um, 20 years of global financial data, they now have. UK and European markets on the platform like well done Braden. That is incredible. That’s really, really helpful for me ’cause I’ve got a bunch of UK companies. Thank you for that. If you use our link fiscal.ai/wildlife, you’ll get two weeks free of Fiscal Pro.
[00:56:09] Luke: You don’t even need to give a credit card for that. That’s fiscal AI slash wildlife. Go and Christoph, take another shot at the closing.
[00:56:17] Krystof: Uh, are you ready to become a beast of an investor?
[00:56:22] Luke: Your journey starts in Vegas this weekend.
[00:56:24]
