In this fascinating episode, we dive deep into the trillion-dollar space economy with Alexandra Vidyuk, General Partner at Beyond Earth Ventures, author of the leading Space Ambition Substack, and one of the world’s most prominent deep tech VCs focused on space innovation.
💰 The Trillion Dollar Opportunity – Why space is projected to triple from $500-600 billion to over $1 trillion in the next decade, and the investment themes driving this explosive growth
🎯 Investment Strategies – Alexandra’s framework for finding the next SpaceX, including dual-use technologies and the transition from government-led to private sector dominance
🧬 Space Manufacturing Revolution – How companies are producing cancer treatments and semiconductors in zero gravity that are impossible to create on Earth, potentially transforming healthcare and electronics
🛰️ Earth Observation & Climate Tech – The explosion in satellite data applications, from monitoring greenhouse gas emissions in real-time to revolutionizing mining exploration and agricultural planning
🌙 The New Moon Race – Inside the $93 billion Artemis program and why the US-China competition is creating massive opportunities for private space companies
🔬 Biotech in Space – Discover how COVID vaccines were formulated on the ISS and why protein crystallization in microgravity could change cancer treatment from hospital drips to at-home injections
⚡ Nuclear Batteries & Energy – How space-grade nuclear power systems are enabling everything from Mars missions to remote terrestrial applications
🏭 Orbital Manufacturing – Why moving toxic production off Earth could preserve our planet as a “clean garden” while building a space-based industrial economy
💻 Data Centers in Space – The surprising case for orbital computing: unlimited solar power, protection from cyber attacks, but the complexities of radiation and cooling!
Alexandra shares her expertise from evaluating hundreds of space startups and explains how retail investors can participate in this generational wealth creation opportunity through angel investing platforms.
About Our Guest:
Alexandra Vidyuk is a General Partner at Beyond Earth Ventures and runs the largest space tech newsletter on Substack with 57,000+ subscribers. She previously spent 10+ years in international banking and holds a physics degree. Her Space Ambition newsletter breaks down complex space technologies for mainstream investors.
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/alexandrausynina
Resources Mentioned:
Space Ambition Substack: spaceambition.substack.com
Beyond Earth Ventures: beyondearth.vc
Recommended viewing: “For All Mankind” series
Companies discussed:
Rocket Lab $RKLB, Planet Labs $PL, SpaceX, Varda Space Industries, Space Forge, Zeno Power, Lunar Outpost
Segments:
00:00 The Space Platform Economy
05:30 Physics to Finance to Space VC
12:00 Trillion Dollar Market Breakdown
20:30 Biotech Manufacturing in Microgravity
32:15 Earth Observation Revolution
45:20 Moon Economy & Helium-3
56:40 Investment Framework & Public Markets
65:15 Making Space Investing Democratic
WSW – E81 – Alexandra – Space Tech – Video – No Ads
[00:00:00] Luke: space might not be the largest part of their revenue today, but it could be one of the fastest growing and the most strategically important for the future.
[00:00:07] Alexandra: It’s not like we have, oh, you know, this is space industry only does business inside this industry. Because It also interconnects with, enabling, , so many other industries and so many other sectors. That’s why it’s also very diverse because of that.
[00:00:19] Krys: the sci-fi world is actually happening because the rockets are going up and all these industries are exploding.
[00:00:25] Alexandra: fusion can be one of the easiest option, for us to produce this, cheap clean electricity.
[00:00:30] Luke: space is projected to be a trillion dollar industry over the next decade?
[00:00:35] Alexandra: I think the first one will be full of robots and hopefully they will build something for us there. And so we can arrive when everything in us, some basic would be already in place.
[00:00:50] Luke: Hello and welcome to Wall Street Wildlife with Christophe and Luke and our very special guest this week, expert Venture capitalist Alexandra Vig. Alex, you are a general partner at Beyond Earth Ventures, which is a US-based early stage deep tech venture investment fund. And you are based in Singapore.
You’ve got a degree in physics, and you transition to deep tech, venture capital after a successful international banking career in London and Hong Kong. And actually that’s where you and I met. So you were very kind to reach out to me and say, Hey Luke, you’re an investment guy. So am I. Let’s, uh, let’s catch up.
[00:01:30] Alexandra: Thank you Luke and Christopher for having me today. That’s exciting and I love your podcast, by the way. Great job.
[00:01:36] Luke: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:01:37] Krys: Alex. Can you tell me, whether your, whether or how your physics degree has come in handy with what you do? I dabble in the quantum stuff for, for some years, but, you know, trying to apply in the real world, you know, like, uh, it’s, it’s hit or miss, but the space industry, I, I wonder like, has that actually come in handy?
[00:01:56] Alexandra: Yeah, so I mean, when I, I wanted to be a scientist when I was a kid, so that’s why I decided to do a degree in physics. But then after graduation, that was like 15 years ago, most of my classmates went to work in management consulting called banking, and I was one of them who went to work for banking. And that was amazing job. You know, banking and look can definitely relate, right? So that’s, you know, like, you know, glamorous you. Lot of travel, lot of challenging tasks, you know, nice people. But 10 years down the line, I was like, okay. Um, you know, kind of coming back to my childhood dreams, you know, what I’m doing now, uh, and I’m advancing some of the energy crisis or helping this climate crisis, helping to learn about like, you know, maybe open, you know, kind of some opportunities for scientists or technologies, like, actually not much. I slowly, slowly started thinking, how can I transition myself and do a bit more of that as well? And physics degree plus 10 years in banking, what’s the best match of, oh, deep tech venture capital. That’s, that’s, that’s what I decided to do. That was three years ago. And, uh, it, you know, my physics degree, it, it a bit rusty now, so I had to kind of brush off some of the uh, you know, kind of things.
But, you know, it’s, uh, it’s I think kind of mix of finance and science. That’s what I like the most about my daily job in, in venture capital.
[00:03:19] Luke: I guess you’re not just a, uh, deep tech angel investment syndicate lead. Um, you also have a popular substack space ambition, and, uh, I wonder about your own space ambition. So, Alexandra, if Elon Musk offered you a seat on the very first commercial mission to begin constructing a permanent base on Mars, would your space ambition compel you to be on that flight?
[00:03:45] Alexandra: Maybe not in the first one. I, I think the first one will be full of robots and hopefully they will build something for us there. And so we can arrive when everything in us, some basic would be already in place. so I think, uh, definitely I would like to travel. I think space tourism is very hot, uh, topic now as well.
Lots of people traveling, kind of, it kind of becoming main mainstream. is a little bit. Uh, d different because I think the first couple of missions still would be for scientists or trained astronauts. Not like for, know, like random people like me. Um, but uh, yeah, hopefully one day it’ll be a possible travel for, uh, normal people. I think if you ask me about like, you know, what would be my big space ambition? Like in the ideal world, if you had, uh, unlimited capital, unlimited sources, unlimit unlimited, uh, engineering, um, capability, I would like us to move all toxic productions from earth to orbit like make sure there’s no, no, uh, emissions, no toxic, um, effects of the what, what’s happening today.
No data centers and keep our clean, nice garden for living and basically all the manufacturing. All the productions based on orbit, that would be mine. But we, far from that, still a lot of
things needs to be done. Still not commercially viable. But that’s kind of, I think that’s, that, that’s why we’re doing space for, right.
That’s, um, would be my space ambition.
[00:05:15] Krys: That’s, yeah.
[00:05:16] Luke: I like that view of the future, that’s like the
[00:05:18] Krys: Yeah.
[00:05:19] Luke: Trek view where we, you know, we come interstellar, but the earth is this like beautiful habitat. There are dystopian sci-fi movies though, where the earth is like the trash can, and then we escape the, the rubbish we’ve left behind.
[00:05:32] Alexandra: exactly. Exactly.
[00:05:33] Krys: You know, that’s such a great place to start, I think, because down here on Earth, I’m guessing the general public. has either no idea about the space industry at all, or commonly in the political realm. We often hear, I hear stuff like, why are we wasting billions of dollars playing around up there when we can’t even feed ourselves down here?
You know, like, and so there’s this common misperception of billionaires in their high tech rockets, you know, just ignoring more important stuff down here. How do you see something like, how might you explain in general how you see the space industry from that kind of like critique at the start?
[00:06:22] Alexandra: Yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s quite common. I, I hear it a lot. Uh, I think, I think especially like, you know, lots of people also come to me and say, oh, you investing in space, but are you a billionaire? Like, know, only billionaires can, can invest, right? Like visa, you know, like, um, El Elon Musk. It’s changing very fast.
And you, you’re absolutely right. It’s not in a, like mainstream media. so I mean, even if you remember like Apollo program, what basically brought us to the moon, I mean us as a kind of, uh, as a civilization, right? So we, we still using lot of, um, research and, things have been discovered during that program on a daily, daily life, right?
For example, baby formula that was developed during that program or like some of the, you know, a heart
[00:07:13] Krys: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:14] Alexandra: which we used today in, in a e that was also developed during, this programs. Lots of, lots of, anyhow, if you go to NASA website, you can see lots of, um. Examples of how space, space, industry, um, lots of experiments actually now being like, you know, real things we use daily in the daily life. So as I see, I always say space is not just industry, it’s a platform and which enabling so many other industries. And one of them, for example, which very close to my heart, is climate crisis and sustainability. So actually lot of things, what we do today is all monitored use from satellites, right? So emissions, you know, pictures using, you know, like images from satellites. That’s how we understand where we have, you know, greenhouse gazes, emissions. How do we monitor where, where do we need to, um. Take some actions or, uh, biotech exactly the same. So, you know, some of the, I invest in one company in the uk, which produces, uh, cancer treatment in space, which can change the way how cancer patients live their, their daily life. Right? And this is the only why, the only reason why we can do it today is because we have access to space
[00:08:28] Krys: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:28] Alexandra: So I think this type of stories I like to tell people is actually, yes, it’s not just space. It’s not just for billionaire or astronauts on nasa, it’s also can improve our daily life. Plus we can also make money on that because, you know, the industry is growing and, you know, people who invest now, they, they not just, uh, investing, but also they supporting the future of, uh, civilization or their kind of our technological, um, kind of assets, right? As, as a civilization.
[00:08:58] Luke: Yeah, I guess like many, um, private and public companies like space might not be the largest part of their revenue today, but it could be one of the fastest growing and the most strategically important for the future. I think in today’s conversation, we’re gonna get into, um, a little bit more detail on some of the specific investment themes you are thinking about. Um, but maybe before we go into, uh, like where you are seeing investment, can you, so am I, am I right to think that like space is projected to be a trillion dollar industry over the next dec decade? Like, can you give us a kind of broad overview of where that trillion dollars comes from?
[00:09:38] Alexandra: yes, sure. So I think as, as you rightly mentioned, world economic format, McKinsey, they’re projecting, like tripling the industry as of today, it’s around 500, 600 billion. So that’s still small compared to other industries, but it’s one of the fastest growing. And I can mean all, always people, like, now if you read most of the headlines, people say, okay, what’s the generational wealth creation opportunity?
Lot of people mention about ai, including all the semiconductors, data centers , and everything, uh, quantum and, and space, right? That’s kind of the key topic people normally talk about and, and, and read a lot. So I, uh, it’s, uh, also important to mention this is. Like one of the very unique industries, which last 25 years, it didn’t have any like, negative growth here. And it also doesn’t have ’cause space typically, or like, you know, venture capital. Uh, my, area is, uh, is typically, , kind of considered to be alternative asset class and space doesn’t have any correlation with any other alternative asset classes. It’s very unique. So if you think about, , how people, typically split, space industry.
We talk about satellite communications and connectivity, observation and remote sensing, space, infrastructure, logistics. Manufacturing resource extraction. And the big one now is defense and national security. So that’s a typical, like verticals in the industry. I also like to mention like, you know, okay, what are the typical use cases?
Which, you know, it’s all seems very abstract, right? Like, okay, so what does it mean satellites? How do I, where do I go, how do I invest? What does it mean? I don’t understand anything. Right? I also tried to mention about think about other industries which space can enable, right? We already talked about crisis, you know, that, that sustainability, big, uh, big, you know, on that, um, biotech, um, pharma as well, right?
It’s kind of very, up and coming. Mining is another big one. Space tourism. We also mentioned. Uh, And, energy as well. So, uh, in space manufacturing also has many different use cases as semiconductors and so on. So that’s kind of, you know, if it’s very special. It’s not like we have, oh, you know, this is space industry only does business inside this industry. Because It also interconnects with so many different, enabling, uh, so many other industries and so many, so many other sectors. That’s why it’s also very diverse because of that.
[00:12:12] Krys: Luke, you already mentioned Star Trek. You kind of got ahead of me, but in this notion of sci-fi, Alex, I don’t know if this is a good question to ask, but there’s like, in my mind anyway, there’s like sci-fi when you were a kid or when we were kids and you know, like everything seems so crazy and far out there and, um, but it’s still a joke or it’s still like, it’s just people having fun with ideas versus now it seems like, oh my God, like this moment of like, you know, the sci-fi world is actually happening because the rockets are going up and all these industries are exploding.
Do you have a sense for that? Like, are we already in this moment sort of living that sort of Star Trek and sci-fi world, or is, is it still. Like years, decades away. Like give us a sense of a little perspective of where we are in terms of like sci-fi stuff.
[00:13:05] Alexandra: That’s a very good question. I think, uh, um, you know, we’ve been in, you know, first satellites have been launched like, you know, 50, 60 sixties, right? So, I mean, we’ll almost like a hundred years in space lot of, uh, space. Already in our daily life, for example, JPS right?
We use it like, you know, every phone, you know, ATM, machines, everything, right? So we can’t live without that. So sometimes people don’t, don’t even know that it’s kind of so embedded in our daily life. So I think if I generally describe where like, you know, as of today that the space industry in, so I think a lot of investments have been done by government bodies in the last 50 years, including NASA and a lot of different space agencies.
By the way, we have more than like 70 space agencies now around the world, right? So it’s like even small countries have it now, right? And the number of satellites is growing and now I think it’s about to reach 10,000 satellites in the next couple of years. So, uh, the space industry is transitioning from being government led. Like with government budgets in the private sectors, in the, in the private sector, kind of, you know, especially looking in the new space companies such as SpaceX, right? And, you know, rocket Lab and Relativity Space, all of these big, names now coming and becoming like publicly traded companies, right?
Hopefully some of them more and more, hopefully we’ll seen soon. uh, that’s, uh, you know, I go to most of like a lot of different space co based conferences as well. And so the ecosystem is not going to die if you have another crisis that’s so big now that’s so embedded in the so many different areas. Uh, but in the same time, I would say it’s not fully developed yet. It’s not like it’s, uh, you know, if you compare it to hockey stick, uh, cycle, we just, at the beginning of this hockey stick, so
[00:15:04] Krys: Hmm.
[00:15:04] Alexandra: a lot of startups. There’s still not no reached the stage where like, you know, there’s a big corporation, multinational kind of corporates, right? And they’re still growing. They still, it’s a lot of capital, a lot of attention attract, you know, we have more capital coming, not just space tech people like me, but also you have private pension funds, sovereign funds now investing heavily in space tech as well. That’s a sign that is big from, you know, esoteric, uh, type of investments becoming more mainstream. Uh, and for me it’s good. As an investor I can see that that’s like, you know, stable. Um. uh, for, for the next, uh, for the next couple of years in that industry. uh, to be like, I mean, so the, the reason why I decided to launch my fund, you know, this time of the specific time of the industry because there’s several, um, uh, kind of, you know, things came to this, uh, to, to, in the same time.
First of all, because of Elon Musk and SpaceX, now it’s easy lo it’s easy, cheap, um, to launch something to space. So it’s a regular flights anyone can schedule. It’s not expensive. I mean, not expensive, you know, , it’s not expensive enough to have to open some new models, right? So people can, okay, if I, if it costs like, you know, a couple of thousand per kilo. Then I can calculate my unit economics. Does it, does it make sense for me to reduce something in space or to launch something to space? Right? So
[00:16:38] Luke: Thanks.
[00:16:38] Alexandra: that’s one, that’s one parameter. one is the geopolitical situation, right? So us and China are competing now. Everyone, you, every day you see news about Donald Trump is launching Golden Dome, China is launching something to space super computer to Spain, competing who is going to be first on the moon again, right?
So 50 years later. So that’s creating competition. That’s always creating a lot of innovation, a lot of, you know, push for who will be the first, who will become, who will position themselves as a leader. That’s good for me as an investor because I can invest in these startups and invest in these technologies, which can hopefully be part of this.
Um. Uh, kind of back to the moon, So another thing is about, you know, defense. You probably are aware about, you know, how big a defense budgets. Now that’s also good because space and defense, a lot of overlap, of, um, joint projects, loss of, you know, dual use technologies, which you can use for defense and for civil applications. And what I normally say for me, if, you know, if, if the defense budgets, if the technology can accelerate development next two, three years on defense budget and then it can turn into civil applications, that for me is an investors actually a good sign. It’s a good trajectory for my, for my, for my companies. Uh, and you know, generally now we have ai, we have robotics and AI and robotics. Doesn’t, you know, I mean for some com, for some industries, it accelerates them. For some industries it kills them. For space, it’s definitely acceleration. So a lot of things happening in space using robotics, using KI for example, how do we navigate satellites using ai?
Right? So a lot of now, of, uh, software now dis designed, okay, auto autonomous, um, you know, navigation, auto, you know, all the drones, all the robots, everything is of course, I know be like enhanced using this ai, AI algorithms. Uh, of course everything, most of the things we do in space is done by robots, right?
Doesn’t matter if it’s some, someone on the moon, if it’s something in orbit, some like, you know, lab robot who is, who is doing something. That’s kind of as of today, I think that’s definitely, I. A good sense. So basically for me, we just have like, it’s right now, it’s a perfect moment to, you know, for the industry and for for us investors to actually look at, okay, what’s going on. Not every sector, not every area in the space industry is going to grow with the same speed. Not every, uh, not every, especially like sector is a VC model as well. ’cause I’m looking at very specific business models. So, but I, I do think it’s a good, um, place for me to be now and a good, good place for me to find some interesting.
Hopefully next SpaceX, next Nvidia, next open ai. That’s what we are. Look all looking.
[00:19:38] Luke: It is interesting you say that like some elements of the industry are, are nearer and some are much further away. Do you, do you, a vc, do you use that to kind of inform your own investment priorities? Like do you have a sense of where the biggest growth is gonna be over the next three to four years perhaps.
[00:19:57] Alexandra: So maybe just a little bit background. How, what, do we do as a vc? I’m not sure how well your, uh, your, your followers, are aware about what’s happening, like what we do. So, as a VC I’m looking for highly, highly scalable business models. So as the early stage vc, so we invest in, , companies proceed seed serious.
A, that means that our target is a hundred x for each potential startup. Doesn’t mean that, you know, most of them, 90% of them will probably go default, but the ones which will make me a hundred x will make the fund. And that’s hopefully it’s like. To, to typical process. So it means that I need to see a multi-billion market.
I need to see that the company, that the technology is transformative. It’s not like one or two government contracts and the company is going to be stable for 20 years. I want to see the company to like, you know, basically, , should experience exponential growth in the next couple of years. Ideally, my lifetime of my fund is like, seven to 10 years typically what people do in the industry.
So within that period of time, I should see potential to have you know, exponential growth. If you generally think about, I mean the verticals, which I mentioned, some of them very old established, for example, satellite communications. Yes, of course you do see disruption such as starlink, for example, Elon Musk like this.
I think the first time when it compresses SpaceX launch business, right? In terms of revenue, we have one web in the UK that’s a disruption. Areas like, you know, disruption technologies. , We also see companies who come and say, oh, now I can, you know, build better satellites, faster, cheaper, more like, you know, we use 3D printing or we use something else. So, and then we can construct the whole old manufacturing, like old space industries and new specific, for example, component for satellites. That’s also disruption, but that means that I’m looking in. Old, well established market. I’m looking for disruption, uh, technologies, one thing, right? That’s one kind of model of, um, my, uh, framework, how, how I can look. Another one is, uh, for example, fastly growing businesses, such as in space manufacturing is a good example. As of today, we have two stations in orbit, ISS, which is like the, it’s a consortium of different countries. NASA is, main one, but also like, I think there’s so many different countries. is now being means that it’s going, I mean, it’s been already plus years in orbit, conducted several thousands of experiment, but it’s very old.
It has to be decommissioned. There’s a new stations have been built now by number of private companies such as Axiom, vast. Startup Voyager, Voyager, by the way, is going to, like, is it submitted, the IPO uh, papers, right? So that’s kind of another example of pub uh, going public. But they are building stations, not just for people to come and do experiments, but also to build real business. know, for example, building labs, uh, for a production of, you know, products in space, semiconductors, data centers, which should be storing data in space instead of having, having it on earth. So, and in this specific area, we don’t really have any established businesses yet. So like all of them might grow with the same speed.
Right? So like, that’s, that’s where I’m looking at all of the potential. Technologies, innovation and startups, and say, okay, uh, which of them will grow faster? For example, which of them have more sustainability, sustainable business models? Which of them has more demand on earth? Right? Okay. So if it’s a pharma, uh, businesses, okay, so who has already contracts, agreements, and, you know, signed kind of, you know, letter of intents with big pharma com.
Big, big pharma houses, big pharma companies. that’s another mindset like, you know, a framework. Okay? How, how, how we can see them. We also look at the businesses. Each has two business lines. For example, one terrestrial, one is, um, uh, space that for me is easier because, okay, let’s say my latest investment, Xeno powers, which is the nuclear batteries for, military use, but also for, uh, space use.
Okay? So how, how are we going to power Mars? Moon orbital. You know, satellites, that that’s, you know, we don’t have, know, most of the reliable, uh, opportunity is to have nuclear batteries. That’s one, one of the one, one of the potential technologies. Okay. But it’s exactly the same how we use in the middle of the ocean a desert in, uh, bunks, right? So that’s crazy. Okay. I have multi-billion market on earth, but also have multi-billion, exponentially growing marketing space. That’s another kind of framework I’m using. Okay. Doesn’t have to be only space. It can be also terrestrial market, but some, at some point it’ll be growing in space. That’s another good example. So that’s, um, that’s how I typically think, I think most of the deep tech we sees, they also think in terms of, okay, I’m looking at the vertical. Okay, what are the players here? the kind of, you know, what are the trends? What are technological, political, economical, trends here?
How do I make the bet, okay, if I’m going to choose one, two leaders with the bet there, and as a belief that’s like, you know, what’s my of the future in the specific, um, uh, sector? So that that’s, I think that’s kind of the, the high level thinking here.
[00:25:54] Krys: Do you have a sense, whether, you know, like in the, in with analogy to the AI race right now, there’s this feeling that the winner there, there’s going to be a winner. And it’s just so important for either the US or say China to be the winner because everything else follows from that. Is the same kind of thinking happening in space where there’s this mentality you gotta, you, you gotta, you have in order to win, in order to get this massive exponential growth where to get the scale, you have to be the first, or is space such a huge frontier that it’s going to be multiple winners?
[00:26:32] Alexandra: there’s a interesting saying in VC world, which says, you know, it works like a charm. Like, you know, the, the further attempt, right? So, so many technologies, the first two waves of, uh, technologies typically fail. And then the third wave, it, it, it works, for example, asteroid mining, right? So we already seen the two waves of. You know, a number of different startups trying to do the same thing. like 15 years ago, first wave, and then now we have the second wave. And people even say like, you know, even now it might not be the right time because you need to have, you know, demand technology readiness, economic, you know, you need, economics has to work, right?
For all of this to be able to work. So sometimes people say, okay, we’ll see that maybe, the, the first one will fail. We’ll wait for the, okay, if, if we have the proven, demand, the proven economics, then okay, we’ll be able to invest. so I don’t think that, you know, in some markets, for example, launch.
It is no 90% of space apps. Right. But people still say that, okay, uh, you know, now everyone wants to have their own national launcher, you know, on soil specific, you know, kind of count, uh, country, right? And people say, yeah, but this is like, this is only for like, you know, big or smaller, right? So, you know, we, we want to have something for smaller.
Why do we always launch big, big rocket? We, we should have like a medium size or small smalls size rocket. So there’s kind of steel markets for that, right? So in terms of the orbital station, for example, private stations, it’s exactly the same, right? So it like, you know, there’s no like one big contract which everyone is fighting for.
Of course the first one, it would be the one the people who will replace ISS. But if we are going to create demand for. A lot of other businesses, it doesn’t really matter. You know, one can specialize in, uh, robotics lab for biotech. Another one can specialize in touristic or maybe entertainment in the strategy.
Let’s, let’s do some, you know, entertainment, entertainment show in space. And, uh, we can, you can be, you know, different business models around that.
[00:28:51] Luke: Didn’t, uh, didn’t Tom Cruise, like he’s filmed or he is about to film something on the ISS.
[00:28:57] Alexandra: it, I think, yeah, I, I saw it in the news as well. I think it’s just, I think it just happened maybe, or hopefully you’ll see, you’ll see some more. I find it, um, kind of probably very expensive, but it’s, it’s, it’s cool to make it more public.
[00:29:10] Luke: Yeah, I would definitely rather see crews up there than Katie Perry. Katie Perry.
[00:29:17] Krys: Poor Katie. Everyone’s mad at Katie.
[00:29:21] Alexandra: Yes, yes. But I mean, and people say there is not no, no such a thing as a bad pr, you know, I mean, I, I, I was reading all this comments, but I was like, at least people talk about that. It, people talk about, oh, blue Origin actually you can book a flight. Anyone can book a flight now. Right. So still, I think, attracted enough attention for people to start thinking about, Hmm, maybe I should buy a ticket as well.
[00:29:41] Luke: I wouldn’t feel too sorry for her. I saw a Reddit article yesterday that she’s making, $900,000 per show for her, uh, Las Vegas residency.
[00:29:49] Krys: Yeah, so who’s the dummy?
[00:29:51] Luke: could, uh, she could fund like a bunch of
[00:29:53] Krys: Yeah.
[00:29:53] Luke: with that kind of income.
[00:29:55] Alexandra: Exactly.
[00:29:56] Luke: Should we, uh, should we dive? ’cause we’ve talked in outline and we’ve touched on like a number of these investment themes, but I’d be quite keen to go a bit deeper on some of them and just kind of, you know, really understand your expert view on, for example, is space helping us with biotech, semiconductors, mining, private orbital stations, that sort of thing.
Do you wanna sort of pick one and let’s start going down a bit of a rabbit hole.
[00:30:20] Alexandra: Yeah, sounds good. Uh, you mentioned biotech is, is, is the first one. Let’s, let’s, let’s, let’s start with that. So, um, we did complete some of the, um, like, you know, understanding of what’s happening in, in the industry and, uh, in the last 20 years or so, more than I think around. 2000 experiments have been conducted on ISS, uh, that was mainly research, um, like, you know, research, uh, experiments, you know, talking about K stem cells, production of cancer treatment, vaccines, even IVF embryos. so many different things. But these experiments have been just pure resource because it was super expensive, difficult to book, no opportunities to scale. ’cause now it’s all changing because easier to launch now building kind of real estate and space private stations? No, Musk is building Starship and some people say we don’t even need private station.
We can just, you know, keep the Starship flying around the Earth. That’s, that’s, that’s not, that’s, that’s already one. Starship is already bigger than whole ISS. Right. So that’s what gives us the, the, the space for build sample up or small manufacturing facility in space. plus also, how do you bring it back? Now we do have capsules and one of the companies which I closely following, which called Water, which probably now one of the, like market leader in terms of the kind of in-space manufacturing. So already B is like prob, I think they just closed series B. so, uh, they just done like two return capsule back to Earth as well.
So it’s, it’s kind of, you know, a routine process. Now, launch something that manufacture something bringing back to earth. That’s kind of in a nutshell, that’s what’s that, that’s what people would like to do, right? And hopefully at some point it will become like, you know, as a, you know, not even remarkable anymore to even talk about it.
Right? uh, example of, uh. So I already mentioned about one of my portfolio companies, they’re doing crystal, uh, crystallization of protein in space. And the reason why it is much better in space is because the molecules of pro of, pro of protein, they’re very geometrically complex. So they, if you grow them big, they collapse and uh, you can only grow to some certain size. Uh, that means like for, uh, but in zero gravity, in microgravity they can grow bigger so there is no gravity which collapsing them and they grow more symmetrical, more pure and bigger. For cancer patient, that means that they can switch from a drip to an injection. And imagine if you have a cancer that you don’t have to go and you know, every day to hospital and have a nurse putting needle into your wing, but you can actually inject yourself at home. that’s a huge lifestyle change. It’s also huge, potential, you know, because it’s new patent, right? For example, that’s for pharma company that can also, you know, hit a huge new revenue, um, stream for, it’s good for everyone, right? And like the, the reason why it is possible today, let’s say approximately the one kilo of this protein cost, like a hundred k. You know, we don’t, we don’t know exact number yet, but I think that’s what number kind of effort approximately. So if you, if you want to launch something to space, which costs, let’s say 2K again approximately, build something there, the robots will create you these proteins and you send this box back home, which will be also like probably a couple of, so the numbers are not public yet, you still have the margin, That’s, uh, that’s, that’s a real business. It’s not like, you know, a research experiment anymore. another company I invested in the UK as well, uh, it’s as an angel investor. It’s called, uh, space Forge, that they do similar thing, but they do it for semiconductors. the semiconductors that compound crystals, which you can grow in space again, because of the zero gravity, because of the deep vacuum, because of the special, uh, um, You can’t reproduce an earth. vacuum is super difficult to do microgravity. You can’t reproduce because, because, you know, we can’t, it’s physics, right? We can’t break it. the compound crystals for they grow 10 times longer in space and three to five times more pure than an earth. means that for if you produce semiconductors from them. Use them, uh, on earth, they’ll consume 50 less percent electricity than they
[00:35:15] Krys: Hm.
[00:35:16] Alexandra: And that’s, imagine like, you know, for us, we already have so many, like, you know, we already have energy crisis. We already have, you know, people complaining about all data centers, you know, taking all the energy, don’t have enough supply, we have like emissions, blah blah blah, that can potentially, you know, offset some of these issues already. So, uh, so that’s kind of just a couple of examples of what can be done. But I’ve seen companies, you know, because I have like lots of decks, you know, from different startups, ba it should basically people, so this ISS experiments, which I mentioned to you is a public data. Anyone can go on the website. at this, you know, um, what has been done, results. And lot of people now, like that’s a new generation of entrepreneurs come in, right? And say, oh, let me, let me look at this, this, okay, this one, okay, organize hasn’t been done yet. Okay? I’m going to call the scientist. I’m going to create a pitch deck, find. Find money, apply for grant done. This is a startup going, right? So, uh, previously I think previous generation of entrepreneurs have been made like engineers and scientists, but now we see lots of people coming, you know, like from outside of these areas and just kind of a bit more, you know, general view. Okay, uh, let me trend, let me find a co-founder, um, who’s a scientist and I’m just going to do a startup based on that, which is great.
Which is like, you know, that’s exactly what happened in, um, I think one, the internet in 1990s. The first wave was, you know, again, engineer software, uh, coders, and now people, oh, actually that’s how we can make money here. And a lot of normal, not normal, but you know, generalist founders came to the play, right? So I think that’s what’s happening now. I mean, that’s my hope that would be happening more and more in space industry as well. Um.
[00:37:05] Krys: Alex, can I ask you, because this is something, because this is so, I’m learning so much about this. I came into this conversation with the view, uh, that something like biotech like space would be the worst place for it because of things like, you know, my understanding of astronauts going up there and their muscles that, you know, atrophy and they have to exercise all the time, but even if they exercise when they come back to earth, it’s just so much worse or harder.
So this notion that there’s aspects of. Space that do things even better than on Earth. It still feels kind of shocking and almost like, uh, hard to believe. Like, uh, maybe another example is, you know, down here on Earth, we experiment a lot with animals and with mice, but then it works on the mouse, but then you try to transfer it to the human and Oh, well, like, you know, it doesn’t, doesn’t translate.
So are you, are you saying what, I think you’re saying that, that like, that it, there is like this almost way in which the counterintuitive truth is, is the truth.
[00:38:11] Alexandra: So, I mean, you know, some of the, um, COVID vaccines have been formulated in IS right. So like I was
[00:38:20] Krys: Oh.
[00:38:20] Alexandra: one, some of the articles about that. It’s actually, it’s fascinating Right? That, you know, you can almost say that, you know, space helped us to beat Covid. Right? Uh,
[00:38:29] Krys: Hmm.
[00:38:29] Alexandra: uh, I I, I, I do think that there’s a difference between, you know, people actually being in space and on the moon because we have a lot of issues with radiation protection and generally, I don’t think the space can make you younger Right.
Or more healthier if you go there, or rather if you stay long, at least we don’t have enough data to prove, like, you know, that’s that kind of, you know, the, the real, because now how many people have been to the moon on the 12th, right? It’s, it’s not significant number to actually do, to kind of make any conclusions, but, uh. In terms of producing something in space to make you healthier, younger, or kind of, you know, some anti-aging treatments. That’s definitely a big thing. Lot of people look at it, lot of people do it. Lots of research has been conducted. So, uh, I started seeing people doing organoids, you know, uh, stem cells, cancer treatment for sure. And some of the things we don’t even know was happening because lots of big pharma companies now booking the flights with these companies, doing experiments, filing the patents, which we, we dunno. But I think what I’ve heard, like, uh, has varde is fully booked for next couple of years by pharma companies, right?
So that means that there’s definitely, uh, kind of. Of this research now trying to be commercialized and you know, actually in real products, yeah, it’s different right now. One thing is you use something which was produced in space. Another thing, you go to space. I don’t think you’re going to have like, you know, anti-aging treatment, hotel in orbit. Definitely, probably not in the current, uh, decade, for example. But May, may, may, may. Maybe late. Yeah. But it’s, still harsh to go there, but, um, doesn’t mean we can use the products out of there.
[00:40:19] Luke: Christophe doesn’t need those. He’s, uh, young and handsome looking as he is. You already a space monkey. I mean, I guess you talked about biotech and semiconductors. I guess there are. Like in my mind, you see, say like an in uh, TSMC, like their manufacturing facility and the people who are building semiconductors on earth, like they’re wearing almost like space suits in these environments.
‘ cause they have to be like ultra clean. And I guess that’s a huge advantage of being in space, right? You’ve got like hard vacuum probably don’t get a much cleaner environment. But then as you say, challenges around radiation, thermal dissipation, like we think about space as being really cold. But actually ’cause there’s a vacuum, my layman’s understanding if it’s quite hard to get rid of heat, and heat is a big problem when you’re in like operating some of these manufacturing processes.
[00:41:11] Alexandra: like it’s one of the biggest debate is like if you, if you follow, for example, I do follow Y Combinator every, every cohort very closely. And, uh, you start seeing that a lot of companies, actually a lots of space companies now, now maybe two, three companies, every cohort you, you, you see that. one of the companies was Lumen Orbit, uh, which they started doing edge computing in space. And like they now pivot to data centers in space and data centers. Space is such a good pitch, right? mean, if you like, think about like very high level, oh, you know, you have solar energy there. You don’t need to like, you know, come up with a separate and there’s no clouds, there’s no day and night.
You can just constant, you know, solar energy supply. It is cold. You don’t need to cool it. Uh, and you have, you know, all the satellites there so you can connect directly to, to, to the internet again, very fast. And there’s no FBI can come. So it’s a physical security as well, right? So there’s no, like, you know, Chinese can put the plaque or FBI can knock your door and say, Hey, a b arrest your data center is security and safety as well. Plus you don’t need to worry about or how, because you know, you know, which, uh, you know, data privacy rule we have to use, right? Because it’s like all up there, right? So it’s much easier. that’s kind of easy sell, but then you Exactly. We start thinking about what you just mentioned. Okay. How long actually, uh, we can, you know, sustain a supercomputer in space with all radiation. You know, the architecture of, um, has to be different. So much less of protection. Uh, we can’t control, you know. Kind of, you know, the redundancy procedures has to be different. The heat exchange as well. Exactly. You know, easy to say, oh, it’s cold there. don’t, we don’t need, but like, uh, what’s happening today is, you know, we, it is getting cool because of water liquid or because of the air. Right. And how do you replicate exactly the same in space? I mean, I would like to see what’s the, what are the engineering solutions they come up with? But I can, I think I’ve seen already maybe five or seven different startups pitching me data centers in space. And I would like to,
[00:43:24] Krys: Hmm.
[00:43:24] Alexandra: like to see how, like, you know, what would be the, you know, even
[00:43:28] Krys: Hmm.
[00:43:29] Alexandra: I think they had some projects about that, like AWS So, and if you look at the, I’m not sure if it’s a speculation or not, but. Eric Schmidt recently became investor and, uh, CEO of Relativity, right? And one of the things he mentioned is because it’s like the, because he wants to build data centers in space, all kind of launch data centers, and kind of, if you think about, okay, data centers, we need more data centers, we need more powerful, uh, for AI, for LLMs, but, you know, we keep building them here.
It’s kind of keep, you know, causing lots of issues for our environment. Why don’t you move it to, to the orbit? Right? It’s kind of logical, but I, I still would like to see how it’ll, you know, for, present itself. , Hopefully we’ll see the next couple of years. That’s actually one of the big things everyone is waiting for.
[00:44:19] Krys: One of the, uh, companies, I did a Safari stock short five minute pitch on is Planet Labs. can you tell us a little bit more about them from your perspective and the industry indus, that the kind of analytics from above and how that changes our understanding of what happens on planet Earth.
[00:44:38] Alexandra: this is like the, the area, what we are talking about is called earth observation. That’s basically lots of satellites flying around is different. Uh, radar technology is different. Um, um, kind of, you know, one different, uh, orbits, right? And they produce different pictures of, you know, it can be optical, it can be infrared, it can be hyperspectral, multispectral, sar, whatever.
So kind of, you know, basically image that any type of, um, um, kind of. Image you need to have, right? Or you, you want to have. as of today, uh, this mainly used by government, right? So by defense people who, okay, so we want to understand what’s happening in Ukraine. We want to understand what’s happening in Israel. We want to monitor what’s happening in China. And the lots of budgets go into this, um, monitoring, right? Um, uh, what we also started noticing is that, you know, financial sectors now coming into this play and saying, okay, can we monitor, the ships movements, right? Can be used for the trading. Can commodity trading? Can we actually monitor what’s happening here with the swimming pool? Can we approve it for mortgage? Uh, oh, you know, I need to send the insurance, um, uh, contract. Can I use it? Can I understand what’s happening in that For example, how. Are they claiming they have, you know, um, the same harvest as they said last year or not. So, and agriculture is the same, right? So like, when is the right time to start doing harvest, you know, if you have a bigger state. So satellites can also provide some of this information. in, I live in Singapore, so in Singapore, you know, it’s like, this is, it’s a island nation, right? So illegal fishing, uh, all the monitoring of traffic, traffic, you know, the, uh, maritime traffic as well, right?
Potentially, you know, obviously it’s getting very hot, uh, in because of the, the, um, uh, climate change, right? So, um, what’s the water level? Is it rising? Is it rising? how fast, why it’s rising? Do we need to take any action on that? So plus, if you think about now what’s happening in this lot of fires now, right?
No. What happened in la right? Like earlier this year, right? So how, uh, faster, uh, emergency actions kind of, and, and, and, um, that’s definitely a, a big thing using satellite images. But more interesting, what I like to see is, uh, emerging trends. For example, how to use earth observation for mining. That’s like, um, one of the industries which hasn’t been using it much, but I think now I can see a lot of mining companies started thinking about that.
And the good thing about, um, satellite images, or satellite, uh, like, you know, the different radar technologies is they can see what’s not, not just on the surface, but also underneath the surface. And, uh, I’ve, I’ve seen some of the cases when I. Using the satellite data plus geological survey data, plus some of the historical data, plus maybe some, some, some of the other data sources.
You can actually, uh, understand where it is to, uh, potentially, you know, you, you have, you need to do a new mine and that can save you three to four years. Uh, geological surveying the mine company is huge, right? Plus, as you can mention, we have less and less deposits now left on earth. So find the new deposit, faster near competition, develop them faster, develop the new minds. Uh, and, and that’s, that, that’s, that, that’s, um, very, uh, kind of, kind of transformative technology, right? For the industry. Uh, and, um, um. So also maybe not very obvious, but it doesn’t have to be optical or hyperspectral, for example, or like lidar technology, which, which also possible, but also like some people say, okay, uh, if we have tree is growing on, um, sand, which has gold, like, you know, underneath infra infrared image would be different from, you know, a tree growing on a standard.
There’s non gold. So like, you know, there’s like more advanced techniques, I think more kind of research, uh, um, kind of scientific methods that they use.
[00:49:25] Krys: Hmm.
[00:49:26] Alexandra: Um. Uh, but yeah, I think that’s, um, I think also I see lot of, um, I mean, already mentioned about environment protection, um, but you know, lots of people say, oh, we have climate crisis.
We need to kind of take these actions. We need to like, you know, change the way how we, you know, use our tax and everything. Lots of complaints about that, lots of, you know, but do we actually have data to base that on? Do we actually understand what’s happening today, every single moment, real time? What are emissions happening?
We don’t, so one of my, I think couple of years ago I looked at, um, uh, we did the due diligence with one of the companies. So we, we realized we have 36 satellite constellation, uh, planned already in orbit trying to monitor greenhouse emissions. And we still don’t understand the full picture of what’s happening today. So we don’t actually have a model of, okay, so waste is a CO2 emissions. There is methane emissions, like everything, right? So that’s, that’s still not enough data. So, and that hopefully now the regulation is changing and, uh, people will be more following this emissions in more details. The big companies such as, you know, Aramco and like the other, like Giants, oil and gas, and,
[00:50:49] Krys: Hmm.
[00:50:49] Alexandra: uh, I, they, they will have to follow, they’ll have to do reporting properly. So that will help hopefully give like this, um, um, kind of monument demand for this satellite constellation. And I think, um, um, one is urban planning as well. So I spoke to one of the startups about, they, they, they, they mentioned like, because you have so, high quality images, now you can actually, you know. Again, mixed satellite data with, NHS data, for example, in the uk. then I can even tell people, so if you have some, uh, issues with your lungs, you have to walk on that side of the road, not that side of the road, because they can say, okay, that side of the road has more pollution, which is amazing, right? That’s not just the city planning, but it’s also like your personal health planning. Right. And it’s like, it’s, um, uh, so unfortunately for, don’t think that this market demand in general, kind of the, the, the, it’s not fully developed yet. I think that we don’t have enough satellite data. It’s expensive, it’s difficult to get, we don’t have it like something like marketplace.
We can just go and buy satellite data immediately. difficult to use. Um, it’s not like a spreadsheet, you know, you need to hire special people who will understand it, who will Special kind of data science skills and, and they kind of, they, they can process and make sense of the data. but what I do hope is happening today is that all of these things, which all the problems which I mentioned, they hope, like they, they, they improving.
So you have new satellites, going up. They are more powerful, they have better resolution, they have more, uh, the, the, the data is kind of, is more regular. We do have software companies which are building marketplaces, which not just one data provider, but several. You can buy them together. You can buy easy, you can basically like, you know, like Amazon style of, you know, shopping.
You just click and buy. And we also have LMS now coming up, which can help us to translate this data the insights and actionable insights, not just Okay. look at the pictures. I don’t, I don’t understand what is it, like, why is the mission here? I can’t, can’t make sense. So that’s whole thing happening. um, um, I mean, planet, planet was still one of the, one of the pioneers, people made a lot of money in that investment as well. So I know, I know people personally who invested early stage. Uh, now they say it’s expensive. It’s, you know, a bit like, you know, dinosaur. But because new companies are coming with better resolution, cheaper, cheaper price options, more innovative technologies and, um, but, you know, I think it’s kind, it’s definitely, it’s definitely the area to watch.
And, uh, maybe of the areas are saturated already, like for example, like optical. But a lot of people now, my my peers, investors are looking at the high hyperspectral leader lid um, infrared images, that’s, um. Kind of the, the, the areas, which I think still not fully, not like we don’t have many competition there.
Still, still, um, uh, lot of potential.
[00:54:20] Luke: A huge potential for business. I, I really liked your NHS example though. Are there, like, I’m a huge fan of Google Earth and if I’m, when I’m traveling somewhere, like I usually put on my Oculus Rift and then go visit the place in, in VR before I get there. And that’s enabled by this incredible resolution, like relatively recent satellite data.
So a bit like your NHS example though, are there other like. Fun websites or tools or things that our listeners could go play with and, uh, you, you know, use some of this data themselves to maybe make their own lives better.
[00:54:52] Alexandra: it’s a good question. So, um, I mean, by the way, the, the, there’s a good series on Netflix about Google Earth. Um, if you Google Maps, Google Earth, if you haven’t, uh, checked this, I think it’s called like a a million dollar code. It’s about German startup, which, um. Which I think originally claimed they did it, but then Google, uh, kind of stole it.
I’m not sure. But, but so it’s an interesting story. So, I did enjoy it. Uh, it’s good. So I think, there’s a marketplaces now. So like for example, like Sky Fi is one of the companies which we looked at, and then you can basically go and mean as still very professional as you can kind of more like okay.
Kind of corporate oriented, the marketplace. But I’m not sure, it’s a good question. Let me maybe search it out. I’ll send you a couple of links if I find something after the, after the podcast. it’s a good question actually, because it’s like B2C, right? You mean you talking about I know B2B stuff, but B2C is interesting.
Yeah.
[00:55:53] Krys: Alex, can you talk to us a little bit about the moon? Uh, it, you know, I still have such a ordinary perspective on this rock floating out there. I understand there’s some water trapped that might be useful, but other than, other than that, you know, what’s this thing up there for?
You know, like, are we heading towards a future where there’s gonna be like base camps and, uh, how do you, where does the moon fit into your world and perspective?
[00:56:25] Alexandra: ex. Exactly. So I think first of all, maybe a little bit like know high level why people would like to go to the moon, right? Because I think there’s, there is some, uh. Uh, kind of, of course there’s a helium three, you probably heard about this, which is a very, very rare, rare element, which is, created by, uh, solar radiation coming to the moon.
We don’t have it on earth because we have atmosphere, which protecting us in magnetic field, but the moon doesn’t have it. So that’s why it’s create, it’s been created all the time there. So hi three is the most expensive, I think element today on earth. I think it’s like, it’s like 300 million kilogram, maybe.
Like, you know, you have to double check with Wikipedia, but that’s very, very, it’s very difficult to produce and it’s interesting as is required for quantum computing and for fusion reactions. Right. And you know, you’re probably not sure if you’re following the energy sector, but there’s a. A lot of like, you know, kind of innovation and technological breakthroughs happening in Fusion. people actually, I mean, because we do have a, you know, increased demand in electricity and fusion can be one of the easiest option for us, for us to produce this, you know, cheap, cheap clean electricity. And companies such as Commonwealth Fusion, for example, uh, they claiming they’re almost there with, with a reaction and with, with a, stable, um, kind of fu fu fusion production of electricity. So, um, that’s what can happen. We can see maybe two or three, four startups have seen who are trying to do harvest of Healing three on Earth and bring it back. And again, kind of the same logic kind of, you know, now it’s like, you know, even taking in account how long, how much you have to pay to get there, harvest the, these robots, the lenders and everything and bring it back. Still, uh, you still have some margin. So that’s became possible in recent years. It wasn’t possible before. uh, plus the moon, you know, you have water, which you can build. You know, one of the, um, so if you interested about the moon, I definitely highly recommend to watch, uh, for all mankind, cities. It’s like one of the best language I’ve seen about the potential economy, what can happen on the moon in orbit and on the Mars. asteroid belts as well. So that’s kind of, they kind of the thing, they have like four uh, seasons, each of them focused on specific business kind of development. So, and that they, they actually talk a lot about hidden free there, how they built the empire, around that. but also moon, so if we ever going to go to Mars or, you know, kind of frequent, you know, routine flights to the asteroids, kind of belt like mine, something there, which we don’t have on earth and bring it back, that possibly we are not going to go from Perth.
We probably going to launch from the moon it’s, you know, much less, fuel you need to have, uh, much easier to launch because there’s no gra much gravity as, as a earth, and I don’t have no atmosphere and everything. So that can be our like launch pad, uh, for
[00:59:43] Krys: Mm-hmm.
[00:59:43] Alexandra: of the system.
[00:59:46] Krys: Do you think w when we were, uh, you know, none of us were alive w during the first moon landing, do you think, first of all, when is the next moon landing scheduled and do you think humanity and our industry, do you think we will be as excited as people were back in the late sixties?
Is it, or, or is it like a different thing entirely now in terms of like psychology and what it would mean for the second round?
[01:00:15] Alexandra: Yes. So that’s that, that, that, that’s, uh, I think I already mentioned about China, US competition around about the moon. So, uh, what’s happening on a high level today in the us I, I, I don’t know, unfortunately what’s happening in China much and only follow the, the main press, but we work with the US a lot.
We actually see, you know, startups applying for different grants and everything. So I do have a bit more insights. So there’s a big program which called Artis, the Artis is kind of a system of. A was the previous moon landing 50 years ago. So that was, so now they want to say, oh, it’s a female sister, twin sister.
So that’s why I call it Artemis. Right. So that’s the, uh, of different countries I think is still NASA led, but like it’s kind of also many other, uh, countries. They’re building a big program. We think it’s like $93 billion. Huge. Right. So, uh, and this is a multi-year program, so they want to not just come back to the moon once and come back and say tick box done, but they actually want to build a permanent base and permanent station, um, uh, to, to kind of, to have a present.
And I think at some point it’s like the, I think I heard about like thousand people can stay on the moon all the time. So that, that kind of, the, the ambition of the infrastructure there, right? So, uh, and this is hundred billion program. It’s not executed by government. It’s actually distributed bit between private sectors. So you have anyone can apply for like a grant uh, you know, it can be Boeing, it can be Airbus, it can be a startup which was created yesterday. Right? And then if you do have the right team, right technology, right track record, they say, okay, fine. This is what,
[01:02:06] Luke: Yes.
[01:02:06] Alexandra: what we, uh, you know, like try, you know, try to deliver this piece of infrastructure. If you, if you do it well, they give you bigger contract. If you do it well, then you become a, like, you know, kind of prefer supplier and then you, you can be part of this big, big problem. So, and that’s what we are closely monitoring because, you know, we do have. of the portfolio companies, lunar Outpost, which actually provides lunar uh, mobility.
So rollers, robots, like, uh, some small kind of, um, um, kind of added, uh, technology, um, pieces, right? So they want like big multi-billion contract, um, uh, multimillion contracts. Now they’re even trying to kind of, you know, get more contracts. But, and if the, if, if, if, let’s say startup win, not one of these contracts, let’s become a fundamental, uh, foundational technology for the moon, right?
And that’s how that, that that’s, that’s kind of our VC thinking here, okay? If you’re ever going to build moon economy that, you know, we want to be, you know, we want our companies to be foundational for that. So not just the first government money, but then anyone else with building anything there. Be using this technology as well. So, and, uh, the, the, the, the Chinese program, they’ve been sending regularly drones, um, uh, probes there. They sending the, um, back, them, found the water, confirm some of the, the dark side of the moon as well. So that’s kind of very, it’s, it’s very active. Uh, now we have, know, the first private, uh, lender happened just a couple of weeks ago that, um, everyone was, you know, like most, most of, most of my colleagues were like watching it in real time. have, uh, another one, uh, landed as well recently of us, I think, kind of not exactly the, the, the, the, the a hundred percent, uh, success mission, but was still okay. So that’s, uh, um, kind of on the high level, uh, this is still as of today. A government led a hundred percent. We don’t have any specific kind of, you know, we do have like, you know, exceptional cases of people trying to do Okay.
As I mentioned about hidden free, about like, some other stuff. Maybe I’ve seen some projects trying to do data centers on the moon as a, as a disaster recovery or as a, you know, what will happen if you have like a huge cyber attack or you know, like, uh, the crisis on the on earth that, you know, you still have data, you still have your servers, you still have data centers on the moon. That’s kind of, uh, I mean this is not ideas sexually build businesses today. I mean, it’s still small, still kind of startup up scale, but people do that. There’s a demand. I mean, I mean not, it’s not like resource, it’s like, you know, small contracts, but pe, pe pe, pe people continue doing that. Um. So, yeah. And then, you know, one day hopefully it’ll be like, you know, like in, in the serious, um, some kind of base and you can travel and become a tourist.
[01:05:23] Luke: Yeah. Fantastic. And Christophe, you misstated it. I was alive when the last time we had humans on the moon. That was, uh, December 72, but so maybe I was like a 11 month old burgeoning sci-fi fan. I think, uh, I think Artemis two or three, like, is it 20, 27 with is the next planned, like boots on the ground on the moon.
[01:05:46] Alexandra: So I think there’s a lot of, I mean, I’m trying to understand what will happen because, you know, um, like, you know, the Trump administration is now like, you know, they just hired a new NASA administrator and I think they kind of reconsidering all the budgets for nasa, for Artemis, and some of the architectural, uh, decisions as well.
So I think the UNA gateway, I think now, I mean, they propose to demise it, I think, and also with a very huge expensive rocket, um, SLS, which now they think they also proposed to maybe replace with Starship. So I think the timeline is, I mean, it’s approximately what you mentioned, but we don’t know exactly what, what would happen when, because you know, the, the, I think we are still still waiting for the new budget to be approved.
[01:06:32] Luke: Well, at least we’ve got Musk running and we know Musk is a space fan, so hopefully he’s not gonna like cut the purse strings too
[01:06:39] Alexandra: some, I mean, most of the people think it’s positive for our industry, right? the, the, the, the new administration, the, the closeness of, uh, um, Musk and Trump. Um, so who,
[01:06:51] Luke: Well look, if Trump doesn’t put like a Trump hotel on the moon in the
[01:06:55] Krys: Okay.
[01:06:55] Luke: decade or two, right? What’s, what’s he playing at?
[01:06:58] Alexandra: uh, I
[01:06:58] Krys: You know.
[01:06:59] Alexandra: be honest, that’s for me as an investor is amazing, right? It’s like, oh, attention. But, you know, kind of, because the, the good thing about, you know, all of these business ideas and business, you know, use cases because it’ll drive the whole business, the whole industry in red. So, you know, the more subtleness we have on orbit, we need to repair, we need to replace, we need to have connectivity for them.
We need to have, um, uh. Maintenance. Like we need to have logistics between arbitrary, so like, you know, we need to have monitoring, right? So that’s kind of creates many other, uh, companies, many, many other services. So it’s like, it’s, it’s a whole ecosystem growing, right? If someone wants to build hotel on the moon, that’s needs Exactly.
This needs energy day. We need to produce, uh, kind of, you know, food. We need to recycle, we need to have robots that we need to have everything right. So it’s great. It’s like, it’s for me, it’s good.
[01:07:52] Krys: You know, this sounds to me like a perfect opportunity to introduce a little controversy, uh, to our show. What’s, what’s a, a podcast without controversy? Uh, Luke and I have been going back and forth for a little while on what I think the pub public most understands is the space race, which is SpaceX. Uh, and a lot of Elon Musk’s claims about starlink.
And then there’s this new company, or new-ish pre-revenue, A STS Space Mobile, which recently had a lot of visitors from senators and US government. And then there’s this, you know, it’s kind of like a, it, it is a little bit of a war. And then there’s a lot of, I think, information and misinformation. Do you have a, a sense in terms of like, say something like the Golden Dome Project, you know, uh, do you have a sense of which horse is winning?
Uh, if you were an investment, if you were to invest in one of these two companies, do you favor one or the other? Or is there some third place that we might, uh, yet ought to be looking?
[01:08:57] Alexandra: I wish I knew it first of all, and second, I’m not, I’m not sure if I knew it, I would tell you, but like, uh, so in, uh, in terms of what, um, I mean, so first of all, know SpaceX now, like the latest relation was 350 million a according to some rumors. Now it’s less, right? Because, you know, uh, the, some people trying to get, uh, out of that and trying to sell.
But I mean, we, we, SpaceX still rejected to be like at least trillion company, right? In according some reports. Um, and, uh, no, some people say it’s even uncapped thread because the, the, the, uh. think if you look at the latest report, I think it’s already got like 16 billion contracts right from the US government and, uh, launch starlink, you know, connectivity that the, the, the, the SATCOM business and future Mars.
And, you know, all of this, we don’t know what would be the scope of the business of SpaceX, right? And the ambition of Ellan, we know is also uncapped, right? So what type of, what type of businesses he will bring. And I think, you know, some people, you know, like, some people don’t like Musk, but you know, we can’t challenge his ability to pivot, you and, and build great businesses, right?
So that’s definitely, his, in his track record. So, I mean, I, you know, we, we also have this, uh, saying right in, in the, some of the VC world, people say Don’t invest in launch. kind of, that’s already done. It’s not, it’s like, it’s the market is saturated, right? So like, uh, so some people say that, think that I already mentioned that.
I think probably, um, uh, SpaceX is very popular now. It’s as kind of, liquidity is still private company, but it’s liquid as public, right? So it’s lot of opportunities to buy and sell, as well. so I don’t want to give any investment advice here.
[01:11:06] Luke: like Christophe portrays it as a controversy. Uh, I wanna throw like another name in though, which is my favorite of all three. And I own of these now. Like I’ve got a bit of SpaceX and a STS, but my favorite company in this space is Rocket Lab. I think they’re doing some incredible stuff and it’s probably gonna be rocky for shareholders as they transition to their neutron program where they start to have like a heavier launch than that kind of small launch capacity now.
But, um, do you, do you have any views on their future?
[01:11:33] Alexandra: I think, uh, rocket Lab is a iconic company, and I think it’s definitely a good example how, you know, Peter is amazing founder, right? So like, you know, like he completely changed the, the whole, you know, it’s, he’s coming from a country where like New Zealand never had any. like even like, you know, the engineering kind of program, but any of the universities there, right. And then he, he, he, he’s coming from a completely different background and now Rocket Lab is, it’s, it’s, I mean, I also think made some money on Rocket Lab last year. So it’s, good to monitor what’s happening there. But, you know, I think the, um, the, need to, I, I think it’s, the problem is like, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s highly reactive to news, right? So I, back to your question about Golden Dome, um. I mean, that’s potentially a 50 billion project, which will be, uh, you know, uh, distributed between private companies such as SpaceX, rocket Lab, and now they say like, you know, as well, right. So that’s, um, um, we still don’t know exactly what I mean.
I mean, I watch news news every day. I read all the, and, and, uh, all the reports I can find about that. They do have, my agents also kind of, you know, trying to kind of go like all the different conferences in the US and try to understand what’s happening there. Uh, I would say definitely something for us to very closely. if I were to make my bed, I would probably say that, you know, probably Rocket Lab SpaceX, and that’s, that’s the, uh, fast moving space giants. But, you know, like, you know, I, I think in 1990s that probably would be like, boy, an Airbus. now I think would be mix old space and new space. But also probably I’m biased because I’m a, you know, early stage VC investor. I would like to see more new space companies and startups, companies. ’cause I do think they can deliver fast. I do think they can iterate. I do think they can innovate, uh, with a very different speed than, you know, big corporations. And that’s much easier if the US want to be competitive and, you know, uh, the same level of innovation as China. They will have to use. Um, they will have to invest in these companies. But I mean, we do have, of course the r and d, um, teams of, you know, big corporations. I think still mostly innovations, predominantly coming from the startups, especially in the us.
[01:14:16] Luke: I guess you’ve got a huge, like a, there’s a huge number of. Private companies in operating this area, and I’m sure that’s your focus, but for our audience who are predominantly public market investors, are there particular companies that you might direct our attention to? Either ones that are like directly in the space sector or maybe like terrestrial companies, public companies that you think are really gonna benefit from space.
[01:14:42] Alexandra: definitely, uh, um, like companies like Google and, uh, Amazon, right? AWS already kind of open the showing interest, right? And, track record of innovation area, you know, project Cooper for example, from Amazon, right? It’s like, it’s another kind of like starting, kind of competitor, right?
So Jeff Business, of course, he has his own kind of, you know, space company. And I do think that there’s gonna be some collaboration, uh, in the future, kind of how, okay, so how do we bring like, you know, innovation, space innovation back to Amazon? Google is the same. I hope that it’ll also, I mean now we don’t have many public companies in the uh, LLM space.
But again, slowly, slowly, slowly. I think some people say that, you know, imagine like if LLM companies such as OpenAI and other will be start buying space data, right? And start basically you can like, almost like chat bot, oh, can you show me, you know, this image, what’s happening in that side of the boat? Or can you calculate me, how many cows in my farm right today?
Something like this. So that’s hopefully, that’s probably, hopefully will be a trend as well. Um. Um, that’s definitely kind something which will benefit I think, uh, um, anyone can take an advantage of in space manufacturing. A big pharma companies, which will, you know, um, kind of, um, explore the innovation that area.
Um, semiconductors as well, who companies who produce it all kind of cheap manufacturing, who can take advantage of better materials produced in space or better. Um, kind of the, some. of compound threat, what, what they produce, anything which can benefit from better connectivity and better navigation.
So I think that’s the trend will definitely happen. So, uh, okay, starlink is one. You know, we have more things happening in that sector. Uh, the GPS signal is getting better and I think it’ll be replaced hopefully soon, not replaced. But, uh, as many private players coming into the space and one of my portfolio companies, z space systems as well, are producing kind of another satellite constellation, which will improve our positioning, like accuracy of GPS signal from three meters to 10 centimeters. Right? And imagine what will happen when we have, you know, our phones. And, uh, everything which has a cheap, uh, know exactly like, you know, we’ll know like 10% accuracy. The, the location not just it, just an X for many businesses. Right. You know, it’s like, you know, we don’t even, we can’t even imagine what will happen, when we will have it, this type of service. I think that’s definitely would be, um, um, kind of, yeah. I, I don’t like, to be honest, my, I’m not a big fan and one of the reasons why I do the, the, the, the, the, the new space vc, uh, and Angelist, kind of syndicators because, you know, I do have lot of friends who call me and say, Hey Alex, you know. I like to watch what’s happening, you know, like, you know, great things, you know, like, you know, so many things happening in space. I went to, you know, interrupt to brokers and tried to look for kind of what, what’s, what are the ETFI can learn, I can can, um, uh, invest, but there’s not many, right? So like, okay, so like I don’t want to invest in old space, like in Boeing and Airbus. I want to invest in new space. How do I do that? And like, you’re right, it’s like, it’s not many ETFs, right?
And especially now China market is completely closed, uh, for non-Chinese kind of nationals, right? So Europe is like, you know, uh, a bit, a bit slow in that sector, right? So US as well, most of the companies are still private. So what, what do I do? that’s why we actually now doing them.
If people want to be in new space, think one of the good, um, opportunities is to be a venture investor, angel investor. And, you know, of course it’s very risky is like not for everyone, you know, people pe people have to kind of, you know, fully understand, um, the, this sector. But I also like, it’s like, it’s not just about investments, right?
It’s like, you know, for me, I do feel, you know, my impact that I’m not, I mean, money making and biggest potential generational wealth creation opportunity, all those things, right? It is great. It’s, but it’s not just, it’s not main reason for me, main reason for me is I want to create technologies innovation, which will push the boundaries of our civilization, right? But also I think what people mentioned to me, some of my investors, some of my friends, okay. Like, you know, you know, now, you know, angel, this is very Democratic, right? So you have, you, you don’t have to invest like a hundred K. You can, you can invest. Single digit K Right? As, as as an angel investor, he say, okay, fine. Put like 5K into this deal. And then we have dinner with my kids and kids like, oh. I say, okay daddy, what did you do? Oh, I have invest in this company which has robots on the moon. And you know, it’s so cool. And kids started talking about, oh, my daddy invests in this, you know, kind of cool technology. They go start Googling, right?
And they go, next day they go to these kids, to the teacher they tell about. So it’s kind of creating this positive wave of curiosity of, know, kids might get interested in STEM education or choose a degree in ai, robotics, moon economy, whatever it is, right? it’s kind of, for me it’s like also not just. The, the business, but also social impact, hopefully. And, uh, um, I also like, you know, people say, oh, I have to be billionaire. invest in space. I cannot buy SpaceX because I have to put like 5 million, whatever. Right? But it’s, um, uh, like it’s, it’s also the ways how people now can be more part of the, uh, this movement, part of this growing economy. And that’s why it kind of, that’s what motivates me to do it sometimes. Very difficult, of course. Like it’s a
[01:20:57] Luke: I, I love that.
[01:20:58] Alexandra: Yeah.
[01:20:59] Luke: It’s very inspiring, right? And I think investing can be like a really interesting lens into what’s happening in the world, what’s happening in the future, and, and it certainly makes me optimistic about the future. You can wake up some mornings and just feel, you know, you read the news and doom scroll for like an hour in bed and you can feel really pessimistic. But when you look at some of like what we’re doing with technology and innovation in space, but in lots of other areas as well, like there’s a lot to be excited about how the world could be such an incredible place in the future.
[01:21:31] Alexandra: Exactly. Exactly. And I, I’m, I’m not just a VC investor, I’m also an angel investor by myself, and I’m part of many like syndicates or communities where like, I, at the deals and sometimes it’s not about investing, but sometimes it’s exactly what you mentioned is about reading what other people do and you like, you see it look like, oh my God, some people who actually trying to mind helium free on the moon, right? And I’m sitting here and like, you know, and trying to like, you know, kind of analyze this financial statement of this company, but some people actually building robots to go to the moon too. It’s like that creates this, this like, you know, kind of opens your mind about ambition about. Perspective of other people, about possibilities, about innovation, about like everything, right?
And it’s, it’s, I find it super exciting. Super, super inspiring. Yeah.
[01:22:22] Luke: take an opportunity there to plug your, um, your space Ambition. Substack. You’ve got 57,000 subscribers. I think it’s widely read and I, I was reading a really article, really interesting article you published on there just a few months ago about, specifically about like lunar resources, helium three. So this is becoming one of my kind of go-to points to understand this sector better. I will put a link to the substack in the show notes and to your angel list syndicate. But if you wanna learn more about this, uh, Alex and her partners really are a very valuable resource.
[01:22:56] Alexandra: So the, the, the story behind space Ambition is I started writing three years ago as my, as basically, because I was trying to break into the sector and I was a, a, like a bunker. And I was like, okay, so where do I go? Where do I read? And I, what I realized is like, because it’s such a highly technical area, and if you want to spend like, you know, five, 10 minutes reading something a day, which has like, no, no jargon, no like technical, like, you know, scientific engineering or like, you know, very purely like, you know, financial statements kind of about you.
There’s not no way to read and like, you know, and I was like, it’s too easy or too difficult. Or people, like, people write, like for people who’ve been in the sector for 20 years. I was like, I was like, oh, okay, but I’m just normal kind of person. Where do I go? So, and I started reading it and publishing something for my friends, for, for me.
So I’m still writing it today as I’m writing it for me three years ago. Right. So like, so I hope that it can bring more people, you know, like, it’s like plain English, you know? No, you don’t need to have, um, you know, preexisting knowledge about industry. And it’s like five, 10 minutes reading every Friday you publish a new article.
Please, please, please. Uh, yeah, please do. Sign up. It’s one of the biggest, I mean, it is the biggest space that block on Substack now, and I think probably one of the biggest for investors. Uh, probably, probably the biggest as well. So yeah, it’s 57,000 subscribers. Every article. Article we have like 30 k. No people reading it.
So it’s like, it’s, um, and I do have a lot of people also messaging me, so of course lot of startups every day sending me text, uh, which is of course, uh, I, I, I do appreciate and I do like it, but also have other people messaging like, Hey, hey, Alex, sorry. No, I made so much money on crypto now I want to invest in space.
Where do I start? Right. And it’s, it’s good to have, I I I, I do like messages because actually you know, kind of people curious about, okay, okay, I have, um, would want to move from crypto, from like NFT kind of investors to uh, or like a deep tech investment, right? So that’s, I think, I think it’s cool.
I think it’s, uh, it is, you know, that was keeps me going because I don’t make money on this block. For me it’s mainly like, you know, spreading the good.
[01:25:20] Krys: thank you for, for doing that. Good work, uh, on Substack and I think we on Wall Street Wildlife. In terms of our process of helping investors get started, we always say you have to begin from a place of curiosity and actually understanding the, the material company and the, the, um, the thing that’s being built.
And once only when you have some basic understanding, you then go to doing the finances and looking for companies. So thank you for your tremendous offering in doing that work. And there’s so much incredible information on that, that, uh, Substack blog. So that’s the, that’s your homework assignment. Uh, wall Street Wildlife listeners, check out Alice’s Substack blog, which they could find at
what’s the address, Alex?
[01:26:15] Alexandra: Oh, it’s a space ion, um, do substack.com. Yeah.
[01:26:19] Krys: Okay.
[01:26:19] Luke: And, and where else can our listeners find you online? Alex? I.
[01:26:23] Alexandra: the LinkedIn, Twitter, email, um, Substack. Yes. Uh, all of social media. Um, so, and as a, as a, as I mentioned, we do run and AngelList syndicate, which is the biggest, uh. AngelList, um, space Tech syndicate as of today. So AngelList is the biggest platform for angel investors. So the minimum, like check for typically is like $1,000.
Some of the, some of the deals, some of the syndicators do. That’s kind of the, the very democratic way for people to invest. Um, we of, when we have a deal from the fund, sometimes we also have some allocation left and we also say, okay, you know, we can maybe, uh, post it like you, it’s like, uh, the, the, the poster of the deal and then people can invest as well.
So that’s, um, for accredited US investors, uh, typically. But you know, I think you can click the link and have a look what, what, what what we do here is more than 600 members as of as of today. Um, and you know, as a, as a, as as also mentioned now, it’s like, it’s about like, you know, curiosity as you, as you say.
Exactly right. So it’s,. like, uh, free to ask me any questions as well if you have, uh, hope to, provide more information. I, you know, if people are interested.
[01:27:41] Luke: Fantastic. But that was a really rich conversation. We got into a whole bunch of really interesting investment themes. We all learned a lot about space and investing in that sector. So thank you so much for your time, uh, on the Wall Street Wildlife Podcast this week.
[01:27:55] Alexandra: Thank you for having me. That was amazing.
